Speaking Truth To Power In Donald Trump's White House | Morning Joe

>> WHO IS IT THAT TELLS HIM THE HARD TRUTH.
THAT IS YOU? >> I DO AND ALMOST EVERYONE THAT
SURROUNDS HIMSELF WITH. THAT DOESN'T MEAN -- I THINK
WE'RE IN A VERY UNIQUE TIME WHERE NOISE EQUALS IN A LOT OF
PEOPLE'S PERCEPTION ADVOCACY. I FUNDAMENTALLY DISAGREE WITH
THAT. >> JOINING US NOW FORMER CHIEF
OF STAFF TO GEORGE W. BUSH ANN CARD.
HERE ON SET AUTHOR CHRIS WHIPPLE.
HIS NEW BOOK IS "THE GATE
KEEPERS, HOW WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF DEFINE EVERY
PRESIDENCY." WE WERE JUST TALKING BEFORE WE
CAME ON AIR AND I THINK THE QUESTION IS DOES THE PRESIDENT
WANT AN ADULT IN THE ROOM, ESPECIALLY AS IT PERTAINS TO HIS
CHIEF OF STAFF. >> HE CERTAINLY DOESN'T WANT
ANYBODY THAT WILL TELL HIM THE HARD TRUTH.
I'M SURE HIS DAUGHTER GIVES HIM THE HARD TRUTH, BUT I KNOW FOR A
FACT THAT FEW OTHERS AROUND HIM DO.
ANDY CARD, HE DOESN'T WANT TO HEAR THE HARD TRUTH.
IF YOU HAVE SOMEBODY THAT'S RUNNING THE WHITE HOUSE.
HOW DO I KNOW? IN THE MIDDLE OF A CRISIS EARLY
ON, I SAY, DONALD, WHO DO YOU TALK TO?
WHEN YOU'RE IN THE MIDDLE OF A CRISIS WHO IS THE PERSON WHO
COMES IN AND TALKS AND SAYS NO. HIS ANSWER WAS NOBODY.
HE SAID, I'M THAT GUY. WELL, WE'RE NOW AT 34%.
MAYBE YOU CAN'T BUILD A SKYSCRAPER BY YOUR SELF AND
MAYBE YOU CAN'T RUN THE DAMN WHITE HOUSE BY YOUR SELF.
>> ANDY. >> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, IT'S
IMPORTANT FOR THE PEOPLE AROUND THE PRESIDENT TO FIND THE
COURAGE TO SPEAK TRUTH TO POWER, EVEN IF THE PRESIDENT DOESN'T
WANT TO HEAR IT OR DOESN'T WELCOME IT.
SO I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR THEM TO SPEAK TRUTH TO POWER.
I THINK PRESIDENT TRUMP IS COMING TO RECOGNIZE THAT'S VERY
IMPORTANT, ESPECIALLY WITH THIS INTERNATIONAL CRISIS WHERE THERE
IS ONE ON VIRTUALLY EVERY CONTINENT.
THERE'S SOMETHING GOING ON THAT'S A CHALLENGE TO THE
PRESIDENT. HE HAS TO LISTEN TO H.R.
McMASTER, PAY ATTENTION TO JIM MATTIS WHEN IT COMES TO THESE
CHALLENGES. HAS HE TO HAVE A BETTER
RELATIONSHIP WITH SECRETARY OF STATE.
HE HAS TO INVITE PEOPLE TO SPEAK TRUTH TO HIM SO HE CAN BETTER
UNDERSTAND THE CONSEQUENCES OF HIS DECISIONS RATHER THAN JUST
THE POLICY OF HIS DECISIONS. POLICIES ARE EASY TO DREAM UP.
IT'S THE CONSEQUENCE OF THE POLICY THAT'S MOST IMPORTANT TO
UNDERSTAND SO THAT YOU MODIFY IT WHEN YOU IMPLEMENT IT.
>> CHRIS, AS YOU LOOK AT THE HISTORY OF CHIEF OF STAFF IN THE
WHITE HOUSE, HOW DIFFERENT IS THIS CHIEF OF STAFF?
SO FAR, OBVIOUSLY EARLY ON, HOW DIFFERENT IS THE ROLE REINCE
PRIEBUS, ANDY CARD, McDONAGH, LEON PANETTA OR JIM BAKER?
>> WHAT I LEARNED TALKING TO ALL 17 LIVING WHITE HOUSE CHIEFS
BEFORE PRIEBUS, EVERY PRESIDENT HAS LEARNED, SOMETIMES THE HARD
WAY, YOU CANNOT GOVERN EFFECTIVELY WITHOUT EMPOWERING A
WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF TO EXECUTE YOUR AGENDA AND LISTEN
TO HIM OR HER WHEN THEY TELL YOU WHAT YOU DON'T WANT TO HEAR.
THERE'S NO INDICATION THAT TRUMP WANTS A PERSON LIKE THAT IN THE
OVAL OFFICE. THERE'S NO INDICATION HE WANTS
TO LISTEN TO HARD TRUTHS. HE OBVIOUSLY PREFERS HIS OWN
FACTS, AS WE ALL KNOW. THAT WAY LIES DISASTER.
THESE GUYS ARE THE DIFFERENCE -- OFTEN THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN
SUCCESS AND DISASTER IN EVERY PRESIDENCY, AND WE CAN JUST GO
BACK TO BARACK OBAMA'S RED LINE IN SYRIA.
>> RIGHT. >> HE TOOK A WALK -- FAMOUSLY
TOOK THAT WALK WITH DENIS McDONOUGH, WALKED FOR AN HOUR,
CAME BACK TO THE OVAL OFFICE AND OBAMA MADE THAT SHOCKING TO SOME
PEOPLE DECISION NOT TO ENFORCE THE RED LINE.
HE'S OFTEN THE ONLY OTHER PERSON IN THE ROOM WHEN HISTORY IS
MADE. >> ANDY CARD, WOULD YOU AGREE
WITH US? ESPECIALLY THAT WAY LIES
DISASTER, CHRIS'S POINT HERE? AND THEN AGAIN, THE SOUND BITE
THAT WE BUMPED IN WITH, WITH ALL DUE RESPECT TO IVANKA TRYING HER
BEST WITH LEVELS SHE HAS EXPERIENCE IN, SHE'S NOT
QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT SYRIA, CHINESE LEADER'S VISIT AND THE
CONSEQUENCES OF HOW THAT GOES. IS SHE?
WHO IS? WHO IN THIS ADMINISTRATION
STANDS UP TO THE PRESIDENT AND SAYS THINGS THAT ACTUALLY HAVE
CONSEQUENCES, THAT MIGHT EVEN HAVE THEM FIRED IF NEED BE?
WHO HAS THE GUTS? >> WELL, SO FAR I DON'T THINK I
CAN IDENTIFY ANYBODY THAT I WOULD PUT IN THAT CATEGORY.
YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE COURAGE NOT TO SEEK THE PLEASURE OF THE
PRESIDENT EVEN THOUGH YOU SERVE AT THE PRESIDENT'S PLEASURE.
YOU'VE GOT TO TELL THE PRESIDENT WHAT YOU THINK HE NEEDS TO KNOW
TO BE ABLE DECISIONS, AND, YES.
THERE'S ALL KINDS OF DECISIONS THAT A PRESIDENT MAKES BUT IF A
PRESIDENT IS MAKING AN EASY DECISION, THEY'RE WASTING THEIR
TIME. THE DECISIONS SHOULD BE TOUGH.
BUT THE ONES AROUND NATIONAL SECURITY AND THE PROTECTING OF
THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND ITS PEOPLE, THOSE ARE THE
TOUGHEST ONES TO MAKE. SO IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT THAT
THE PRESIDENT HAVE A CHIEF OF STAFF, I BELIEVE, WHO CAN WALK
IN, SHUT THE DOOR AND SAY, IF YOU CAN'T LISTEN TO ME, THIS IS
ANOTHER PERSON YOU SHOULD BE LISTENING TO.
INVITE THIS PERSON IN TO COME TALK TO YOU, AND INVITE HIM TO
SPEAK CANDIDLY OR HER TO SPEAK CANDIDLY WITH YOU.
THE CHIEF OF STAFF IS REALLY ONE THAT MAKES SURE THAT THE
PRESIDENT IS NOT MAKING AN EASY DECISION, BECAUSE HE SHOULDN'T
THINK THEY'RE EASY. THEY ARE TOUGH DECISIONS AND THE
PRESIDENT NEEDS A CHIEF OF STAFF THAT ACTUALLY GETS HIM READY TO
MAKE A TOUGH DECISION AND CAN BE MAD AT THE CHIEF OF STAFF.
THAT'S OKAY. A CHIEF OF STAFF HAS TO ACCEPT
THAT AND HAVE TO KNOW THEY SERVE AT THE PLEASURE OF THE PRESIDENT
FOR THE TIME BEING, BUT THEY DO NOT DO THE JOB TO SEEK THE
PRESIDENT'S PLEASURE. >> GO AHEAD, MARK.
MARK, GO AHEAD. >> ANDY, TO YOU FIRST AND THEN
CHRIS. IN WHAT WAYS IS REINCE PRIEBUS
THE IDEAL CHIEF OF STAFF? >> FIRST OF ALL, REINCE PRIEBUS
IS A VERY SOLID, GROUNDED PERSON.
DID AN OUTSTANDING JOB LEADING THE REPUBLICAN NATIONAL
COMMITTEE AND REPUBLICAN PARTY. HE KNOWS WASHINGTON.
NOT NECESSARILY A COMPLETE INSIDER.
HE CAME FROM THE OUTSIDE TO HELP PEOPLE UNDERSTAND WHAT WAS GOING
ON INSIDE AND THE INSIDE IS TO RECOGNIZE WHAT'S GOING ON
OUTSIDE. SO I THINK HE'S GOT THE RIGHT
SKILLS. I'M JUST NOT SURE HE'S BEEN
EMPOWERED BY THE PRESIDENT TO KEEP THE DISCIPLINE NECESSARY
FOR THE PRESIDENT TO DO HIS JOB, AND THE DISCIPLINE IS ABOUT
ACCESS TO THE PRESIDENT, IT'S TAKING SPACE IN THE PRESIDENT'S
HEAD AND IT'S TAKING TIME THAT THE PRESIDENT CAN'T AFFORD TO
GIVE. THE CHIEF OF STAFF'S JOB IS TO
MANAGE THAT PRESIDENTIAL HEAD SPACE AND MEASURE THE TIME THAT
THE PRESIDENT NEEDS TO TAKE TO MAKE THESE TOUGH DECISIONS THAT
HAVE TO THE MADE. YOU DON'T WANT A PRESIDENT WHO
IS MAKING IMPULSIVE DECISIONS. YOU WANT HIM TO MAKE AN INFORMED
DECISION. ESPECIALLY WHERE THERE'S A
SIGNIFICANT CONSEQUENCE TO WHAT THE DECISION MIGHT BE.
>> HOW IS REINCE PRIEBUS LIKE THE MOST SUCCESSFUL'S RECENT
WHITE HOUSE CHIEFS OF STAFF? >> ANDY'S A DIPLOMAT.
TRUTH IS IF YOU OPPOSE EVERYTHING DONALD TRUMP
STANDARDS FOR THEN THIS IS THE WHITE HOUSE STAFF FOR YOU.
ROOKIE MISTAKE AFTER ROOKIE MISTAKE.
NO ONE WOULD ACCEPT IMMIGRATION WITHOUT VETTING IT WITH THE
DEPARTMENTS IN CHARGE. IT'S BEEN MISTAKE AFTER MISTAKE
AFTER MISTAKE. PRIEBUS IS CLEARLY NO JIM BAKER
OR LEON PANETTA. WHAT YOU REALLY NEED, AND TRUMP
OF ALL PEOPLE, NEEDS MORE THAN PERHAPS ANY OTHER PREDECESSOR IS
A GROWN-UP IN THE ROOM WHO UNDERSTANDS CAPITOL HILL.
WHO UNDERSTANDS WHAT JIM BAKER USED TO CALL THE -- THE
CENTRIFUGE WHERE POLICY AND POLITICS COME TOGETHER.
YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO EXECUTE THE PRESIDENT'S AGENDA AND TELL
HIM WHAT HE DOESN'T WANT TO HEAR.
>> YOU KNOW, CHRIS, IT'S INTERESTING YOU WERE TALKING
ABOUT BARACK OBAMA. MAKING THE DECISION THAT HE MADE
ON SYRIA ON THE RED LINE. AND IT'S SO INTERESTING.
YOU HAD OFFICIAL WASHINGTON QUIETLY GRUMBLING FOR EIGHT
YEARS, BARACK OBAMA ALWAYS THOUGHT HE WAS THE SMARTEST GUY
IN THE ROOM, THAT WHEN IT CAME TO FOREIGN POLICY HE DIDN'T TALK
TO HIS SECRETARY OF STATE THE WAY HE SHOULD.
HE DIDN'T TALK TO HIS NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER THE WAY HE
SHOULD, THAT HE WHITTLED IT DOWN IT WAS BARACK OBAMA, BEN RHODES
AND SOMETIMES AS YOU JUST SAID, DENIS McDONOUGH.
INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH, THE LAST PRESIDENT BLEW APART THE -- THE
WHITE HOUSE ANALYTICAL CONSTRUCT WE'VE USED FOR A VERY LONG TIME.
IS IT THE CASE THAT WE'VE JUST GONE FROM BAD IN THAT SITUATION
TO WORSE? >> WELL -- EXCUSE ME -- I THINK
THAT, YOU KNOW, OBAMA DECIDED AFTER THE LOW POINT OF HIS
PRESIDENCY IN 2011 THAT HE HAD NO CHOICE IN HIS MIND, BUT TO
COVER THROUGH EXECUTIVE ORDERS. McDONOUGH WAS EXTREMELY
EFFECTIVE AT DOING THAT, I THINK, FOR BETTER OR WORSE, WITH
THE HELP OF JOHN PODESTA, I THINK THEY WERE ABLE TO, THE
IRAN DEAL, THE OPENING TO CUBA, ON A NUMBER OF FRONTS THEY WERE
ABLE TO -- THEY WERE ABLE TO MAKE WHAT THEY REGARD AS
PROGRESS. >> RIGHT, BUT, CHRIS, I'M
TALKING ABOUT FOREIGN POLICY, THOUGH.
I'M TALKING ABOUT USING BEN RHODES INSTEAD OF JOHN KERRY.
SOMETIMES TALKING TO DENIS McDONOUGH INSTEAD OF YOUR
NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISERS SUSAN RICE.
WAS THAT NOT THE WAY HE RAN HIS FOREIGN POLICY?
>> THAT'S THE WAY FOREIGN POLICY HAS BEEN RUN SINCE THE DAYS OF
NIXON AND H.R. HALDEMAN. THE FACT IS POWER RESIDES IN THE
POUS AND HAS, AS YOU KNOW, SINCE THOSE DAYS, AND AS ERSKINE BOLES
PUT IT TO ME, THAT LITTLE CABAL IN THE WEST WING THAT CONTROLS
THE INFORMATION THAT GOES TO THE PRESIDENT, INFORMATION IS POWER.
AND IT'S BEEN TRUE FOR DECADES NOW THAT THAT'S WHERE THE
DECISIONS ARE MADE ON THE KEY QUESTIONS IN FOREIGN POLICY.
>> ALL RIGHT. ANDY CARD, THANK YOU VERY MUCH,
AND CHRIS WHIPPLE, THANK YOU AS WELL.
THE NEW BOOK IS "THE

Speaking Truth To Power In Donald Trump's White House | Morning Joe | MSNBC

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