Exclusive: Misunderstanding At Root Of James Comey Resources Question? | Rachel Maddow

>>> SO WE'VE GOT SOME NEW INFORMATION IN THE TRUMP-RUSSIA
INVESTIGATION. IT IS NOT A BLOCKBUSTER
REVELATION BUT I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT AND CLARIFYING.
IT'S ABOUT A KEY PART OF THE BEHAVIOR OF THE TRUMP
ADMINISTRATION WITH REGARD TO THE FBI SINCE TRUMP HAS BEEN IN
OFFICE. SO NOT DURING THE CAMPAIGN BUT
SINCE THE INAUGURATION. AND I THINK WHAT IS WIDELY
BELIEVED TO HAVE HAPPENED, WHAT IS WIDELY BELIEVED TO HAVE --
ACTUALLY WIDELY REPORTED TO HAVE HAPPENED AT THIS KEY POINT IN
TIME, WHAT WE THINK WE KNOW ABOUT IT I THINK IS WRONG.
I THINK WE CAN CORRECT THAT RECORD TONIGHT.
SO JUST SETTLE IN FOR A SECOND AND FOLLOW THIS THROUGH WITH ME.
FIRST OF ALL, THERE ARE TWO THINGS THAT WE KNOW FOR SURE THE
FBI IS INVESTIGATING. AND WE KNOW FOR SURE BECAUSE THE
FBI HAS SAID SO PUBLICLY. THEN THERE IS A THIRD THING THAT
WE BELIEVE THE FBI IS INVESTIGATING BUT WE DON'T
ACTUALLY KNOW FOR SURE. WHAT WE KNOW FOR SURE ABOUT WHAT
THE FBI IS INVESTIGATING, WE KNOW BECAUSE JAMES COMEY SAID SO
PUBLICLY IN CONGRESS. >> I HAVE BEEN AUTHORIZED BY THE
DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE TO CONFIRM THAT THE FBI AS PART OF OUR
COUNTERINTELLIGENCE MISSION IS INVESTIGATING THE RUSSIAN
GOVERNMENT'S EFFORTS TO INTERFERE IN THE 2016
PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION. AND THAT INCLUDES INVESTIGATING
THE NATURE OF ANY LINKS BETWEEN INDIVIDUALS ASSOCIATED WITH THE
TRUMP CAMPAIGN AND THE RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT AND WHETHER THERE WAS
ANY COORDINATION BETWEEN THE CAMPAIGN AND RUSSIA'S EFFORTS.
>> SO THAT WAS THEIR ONE AND ONLY PUBLIC STATEMENT.
AND THAT MEANS THERE ARE TWO THINGS WE KNOW FOR SURE FROM
PUBLIC INFORMATION THAT THE FBI IS INVESTIGATING.
THERE IS ALSO ANOTHER THING WE BELIEVE THEY'RE INVESTIGATING.
AS YOU JUST HEARD COMEY SAY, THE TWO THINGS THE FBI CONFIRMS
THEY'RE LOOKING INTO ARE NUMBER ONE, THE RUSSIANS' EFFORTS TO
INTERFERE IN THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION, AND NUMBER TWO, ANY
LINKS BETWEEN THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN AND THE RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT
INCLUDING THE QUESTION OF WHETHER ANYONE IN THE TRUMP
CAMPAIGN COORDINATED WITH THE RUSSIANS.
WE KNOW THOSE TWO INVESTIGATIONS ARE UNDER WAY AT THE FBI.
AFTER JAMES COMEY WAS FIRED, THOSE INVESTIGATIONS STARTED
BEING OVERSEEN BY THE ACTING DIRECTOR OF THE FBI WHO THEY
PROMOTED TO REPLACE COMEY, ANDREW McCABE.
AND ONCE THE SPECIAL COUNSEL WAS APPOINTED, THE GUY WHO TOOK OVER
RUNNING THOSE INVESTIGATIONS IS ROBERT MUELLER, FORMER DIRECTOR
OF THE BUREAU WHO HAS AUTHORITY NOT ONLY TO INVESTIGATE WHAT
HAPPENED BUT TO BRING CHARGES IF HE SEES FIT.
AND WE KNOW FROM THE ORDER THAT APPOINTED MUELLER TO THAT ROLE
THAT THE INVESTIGATIONS HE'S OVERSEEING ARE THOSE
INVESTIGATIONS YOU JUST HEARD COMEY DESCRIBE TO CONGRESS THERE
ON THAT DAY BACK IN MARCH. BUT THERE IS ANOTHER MATTER THAT
IS WIDELY BELIEVED TO ALSO BE THE SUBJECT OF FBI
INVESTIGATION. WE DON'T KNOW FOR SURE, BECAUSE
THE FBI HASN'T SAID. BUT IT IS WIDELY BELIEVED THAT
THEY MAY ALSO BE LOOKING INTO THE ISSUE OF OBSTRUCTION OF
JUSTICE. WE BELIEVE THE JUSTICE
DEPARTMENT MAY BE INVESTIGATING THIS THROUGH THEIR INSPECTOR
GENERAL'S OFFICE, BUT THAT IS NOT CONFIRMED.
WE ALSO BELIEVE THAT THE ROBERT MUELLER LED INVESTIGATIONS MAY
INCLUDE OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE ISSUES.
THE ORDER NAMING HIM AS SPECIAL COUNSEL SAYS HE'LL INVESTIGATE
ANY LINKS AND/OR COORDINATION BETWEEN THE RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT
AND INDIVIDUALS ASSOCIATED WITH THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN.
BUT THEN RIGHT AFTER THAT IT ALSO SAYS HE MAY INVESTIGATE,
QUOTE -- DO WE HAVE THAT? YES -- ANY MATTERS THAT AROSE OR
MAY ARISE DIRECTLY FROM THAT INVESTIGATION.
SO WE BELIEVE, WE DON'T KNOW BUT WE BELIEVE THAT MATTERS THAT MAY
ARISE DIRECTLY FROM THAT INVESTIGATION MAY INCLUDE THE
POSSIBILITY OF THE TRUMP TRANSITION, THE TRUMP
ADMINISTRATION, EVEN POTENTIALLY THE PRESIDENT HIMSELF, TRYING TO
OBSTRUCT JUSTICE, TRYING TO PERVERT OR IMPEDE OR STOP THE
INITIAL INVESTIGATION INTO WHETHER OR NOT TRUMP AND HIS
CAMPAIGN WORKED WITH THE RUSSIANS.
SO THE FIRST THING WE KNOW THE FBI IS INVESTIGATING, THE
RUSSIAN ATTACK ON OUR ELECTION, WE ALREADY KNOW A LOT ABOUT THAT
AS CIVILIANS, RIGHT? THE INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY HAS
PUT OUT TWO PUBLIC REPORTS ON THAT, ONE BACK IN OCTOBER AND AN
EXTENSIVE ONE IN JANUARY. THE SECOND THING THAT'S
DEFINITELY BEING INVESTIGATED BY THE FBI, THIS POSSIBILITY OF THE
TRUMP CAMPAIGN HELPING THE RUSSIANS IN THEIR ATTACK OR
COOPERATING IN IT, WE KNOW MORE AND MORE ABOUT THAT POSSIBILITY
ALL THE TIME. INVESTIGATORS AND JOURNALISTS
EVERY DAY TRACK DOWN MORE AND MORE INFORMATION ABOUT THE
INORDINATE AND BEWILDERING NUMBER OF CONTACTS BETWEEN TRUMP
CAMPAIGN FIGURES AND RUSSIAN OFFICIALS DURING THE COURSE OF
THE CAMPAIGN AND THEREAFTER. THAT'S WHERE THE REAL DRAMA IS
IN TERMS OF THE DAY TO DAY REPORTING ON THIS SCANDAL.
BUT HERE IS WHY I THINK IT'S TIME TO GET REAL ABOUT WHAT THAT
MEANS. THE RUSSIAN ATTACK ON THE
ELECTION WAS AN ATTACK BY A FOREIGN POWER ON THE UNITED
STATES FOR SURE. THAT MAY OR MAY NOT BE A CRIME.
POSSIBLY IT IS. MAYBE IT IS.
BUT WE DON'T REALLY KNOW AND WE DON'T KNOW WHAT CRIME THAT WOULD
BE. IT'S A FAIRLY UNIQUE
CIRCUMSTANCE, RIGHT? BEYOND THAT, BEYOND JUST THE
RUSSIANS ATTACKING, THE QUESTION OF SOME AMERICAN, ANY AMERICAN
COOPERATING IN THAT ATTACK BY A FOREIGN POWER, WELL, OBVIOUSLY
THAT SHOCKS THE CONSCIENCE. IT COULD CONCEIVABLY BE TREASON
TO THE EXTENT THAT IT MEANT THAT THE PERPETRATORS ADHERED TO
ENEMIES OF THE UNITED STATES. BUT HONESTLY, I'M NOT SURE WHERE
SOMETHING LIKE THAT GOES IN TERMS OF POTENTIAL CRIMINAL
CHARGES, RIGHT? IF THAT COLLUSION AND
COOPERATION HAPPENED BETWEEN THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN AND THE RUSSIANS,
IF IT IS PROVABLE, IS IT A CRIME?
FOR U.S. PERSONS TO DO SOMETHING LIKE THAT?
MAYBE. I DON'T KNOW.
THERE'S A LOT OF ARGUING ABOUT IT.
BUT I'M NOT SURE IT'S PERFECTLY CLEAR IN TERMS OF IT BEING A
PROSECUTABLE OFFENSE. IT WOULD CERTAINLY HAVE A GOOD
LIKELIHOOD OF BEING AN IMPEACHABLE OFFENSE IF IT WAS A
PUBLIC OFFICIAL WHO DID IT. BUT CONSIDER WHO YOU WOULD BE
COUNTING ON THERE TO SAVE THE REPUBLIC.
YEAH. BUT THAT'S WHY THE LAST POINT OF
INVESTIGATION IS IMPORTANT THERE.
THE POSSIBILITY OF INVESTIGATING OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE.
BECAUSE OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE BRIGHTLY, OBVIOUSLY, CLEARLY IS
A CRIME. AND WE BELIEVE THE FBI IS
INVESTIGATING THE POSSIBILITY OF THAT CRIME RELATED TO THE RUSSIA
INVESTIGATION. WE DON'T KNOW FOR SURE BUT WE
THINK THEY ARE. IF THEY ARE OF COURSE THEY HAVE
A WEALTH OF AVENUES TO CHOOSE FROM.
ATTORNEY GENERAL JEFF SESSIONS BREAKING HIS RECUSAL FROM ALL
ISSUES ON THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN TO NEVERTHELESS PARTICIPATE IN THE
FIRING OF JAMES COMEY WHO WAS LEADING THE INVESTIGATION INTO
RUSSIA AND THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN. OR THERE'S THE MATTER OF THE
WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF REPORTEDLY PRESSURING FBI
DIRECTOR COMEY TO MAKE PUBLIC STATEMENTS ABOUT THE FBI
INVESTIGATION TO TRY TO EXONERATE THE ADMINISTRATION.
THERE'S THE PRESIDENT HIMSELF REPORTEDLY PRESSURING FBI
DIRECTOR JAMES COMEY TO MAKE PUBLIC STATEMENTS ABOUT THE FBI
TRUMP-RUSSIA INVESTIGATION TO TRY TO EXONERATE THE
ADMINISTRATION. THERE IS THE PRESIDENT HIMSELF
REPORTEDLY ASKING THE DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE AND THE
DIRECTOR OF THE NSA TO MAKE PUBLIC STATEMENTS ABOUT THE
INVESTIGATION TO TRY TO EXONERATE THE ADMINISTRATION.
THERE IS THE MATTER OF SENIOR WHITE HOUSE OFFICIALS REPORTEDLY
ASKING INTELLIGENCE OFFICIALS OF SOME STRIPE TO INTERVENE WITH
DIRECTOR COMEY TO TELL HIM TO STOP THE FBI INVESTIGATION INTO
TRUMP NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER MIKE FLYNN.
THERE IS THE PRESIDENT HIMSELF REPORTEDLY ASKING DIRECTOR COMEY
TO LET GO, TO LET GO THAT FBI INVESTIGATION INTO MIKE FLYNN.
THERE IS THE PRESIDENT HIMSELF FIRING THE FBI DIRECTOR.
AND LATER, MAKING STATEMENTS BOTH TO A NEWS ORGANIZATION, NBC
NEWS, AND TO RUSSIAN OFFICIALS IN THE OVAL OFFICE THAT THE
REASON HE DID SO, THE REASON HE FIRED COMEY WAS BECAUSE OF THE
PRESSURE HE FELT OVER THE RUSSIA INVESTIGATION.
THERE IS ALSO WHAT APPEAR TO BE POTENTIALLY KNOWINGLY FALSE
STATEMENTS BY MULTIPLE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT OFFICIALS AND WHITE
HOUSE OFFICIALS INCLUDING THE VICE PRESIDENT HIMSELF ABOUT WHY
DIRECTOR COMEY WAS FIRED. THERE'S ALSO EFFORTS BY JUSTICE
DEPARTMENT OFFICIALS TO CREATE A FALSE PRETEXT FOR WHY DIRECTOR
COMEY WAS FIRED. THERE IS ALSO WHAT APPEAR TO BE
KNOWINGLY FALSE STATEMENTS ABOUT WHAT THE WHITE HOUSE AND THE
TRANSITION KNEW ABOUT NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER MIKE FLYNN AND
WHEN THEY KNEW IT. SO IT'S NOT LIKE THERE'S ANY
SHORTAGE OF AVENUES, RIGHT, TO DRIVE DOWN IF WHAT YOU'RE TRYING
TO PROVE IS OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE.
ALL OF THOSE THINGS MAY BE PART OF ANY ONGOING INVESTIGATION
INTO WHETHER THE PRESIDENT AND THIS ADMINISTRATION OBSTRUCTED
JUSTICE IN THE TRUMP-RUSSIA INVESTIGATION.
THERE'S A TON. BUT HERE'S ONE THAT MAYBE SHOULD
NOT BE SEEN AS ONE OF THOSE AVENUES.
ON MAY 10, THE DAY AFTER JAMES COMEY WAS FIRED, "THE NEW YORK
TIMES" REPORTED THAT LESS THAN A WEEK BEFORE HE WAS FIRED, THE
FBI DIRECTOR HAD ASKED THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT FOR MORE
RESOURCES IN THE RUSSIA INVESTIGATION.
QUOTE, DAYS BEFORE HE WAS FIRED AS FBI DIRECTOR, JAMES COMEY
ASKED THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT FOR MORE PROSECUTORS AND OTHER
PERSONNEL TO ACCELERATE THE BUREAU'S INVESTIGATION INTO
RUSSIA'S INTERFERENCE IN THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION.
THAT WAS "THE TIMES"' FIRST REPORTING, SUBSEQUENT VERSIONS
WERE REPORTED BY MULTIPLE MEDIA OUTLETS INCLUDING NBC NEWS.
BUT FROM THE BEGINNING, THERE WAS THIS INTERESTING THING.
THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT INSISTED EMPHATICALLY THAT IT WAS NOT
TRUE, THAT THIS CLAIM THAT JAMES COMEY HAD ASKED FOR MORE
RESOURCES, THEY SAID IT WAS TOTALLY FALSE, 100% FALSE, THERE
WAS ABSOLUTELY NO REQUEST. AND HONESTLY, I WILL TELL YOU
PERSONALLY, I DON'T TRUST OFFICIAL DENIALS ANY FURTHER
THAN I CAN THROW THEM, PARTICULARLY THESE DAYS, BUT
THERE WAS JUST SOMETHING NOT JUST INSISTENT BUT INSTANT,
INSISTENT, AND CONSISTENT, JUST EMPHATIC, ABOUT THE JUSTICE
DEPARTMENT DENIALS ON THIS. AND THEN THE ACTING DIRECTOR OF
THE FBI, UNDER OATH, SAID HE KNEW OF NO SUCH REQUEST BY
DIRECTOR COMEY FOR MORE RESOURCES FOR THE TRUMP-RUSSIA
INVESTIGATION IN THE DAYS BEFORE HE WAS FIRED, AND THEN THE
DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL TESTIFIED EMPHATICALLY TO
CONGRESS THAT HE KNEW OF NO REQUEST FOR JAMES COMEY FOR MORE
RESOURCES IN THE TRUMP-RUSSIA INVESTIGATION BEFORE HE WAS
FIRED. AND ROD ROSENSTEIN WAS THE ONE
WHO REPORTEDLY WAS ASKED FOR THESE RESOURCES.
IT WAS THIS UNBROKEN STRING OF CONSISTENT DENIALS FROM THE
DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE, NO, HE DID NOT ASK FOR MORE RESOURCES
BEFORE HE WAS FIRED. BUT ALL THESE MEDIA OUTLETS.
AND THE PRESS HAS BEEN REALLY GOOD AND AGGRESSIVE ON THIS
STORY.
AND WHICH IS IT? BECAUSE THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT
SEEMS VERY SURE. BUT THERE'S ALL THOSE NEWS
REPORTS WITH MULTIPLE SOURCES SAYING HE DID.
DID JAMES COMEY TRY TO SPEED UP AND GET MORE RESOURCES FOR THE
TRUMP RUSSIA INVESTIGATION RIGHT BEFORE THEY FIRED HIM OR DIDN'T
HE? LAST WEEK WE CHASED THE JUSTICE
DEPARTMENT ON THIS A LITTLE. WE ASKED THEM IS THE DOJ SAYING
NO REQUESTS WERE MADE FOR ANYTHING, PERIOD?
AND WE GOT THE FOLLOWING ON THE RECORD REPLY.
QUOTE, NONE, PERIOD. NO GRAY AREA.
NOW WE THINK WE MAY HAVE FIGURED THIS OUT, AT LEAST PART OF IT.
IT IS MY BELIEF BASED ON OUR EXTENSIVE REPORTING ON THIS THAT
WHAT WENT WRONG HERE IS THERE WAS SOMETHING AKIN TO A GAME OF
TELEPHONE ON CAPITOL HILL. AND THE RELAYING OF INFORMATION
ON THIS POINT FROM PERSON TO PERSON RESULTED IN THESE
SEEMINGLY IRRECONCILABLE REPORTS ON WHAT JAMES COMEY DID OR
DIDN'T ASK FOR THE TRUMP INVESTIGATION RIGHT BEFORE TRUMP
FIRED HIM. WHAT WE KNOW IS THIS, THE DAY
BEFORE HE WAS FIRED, MAY 8th, FBI DIRECTOR JAMES COMEY DID
MEET WITH THE LEADERS OF THE SENATE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE
WITH REPUBLICAN CHAIRMAN RICHARD BURR AND DEMOCRATIC
VICE-CHAIRMAN MARK WARNER. THE THREE OF THEM MET PRIVATELY.
IT WAS JUST THE THREE OF THEM IN THE ROOM.
AND HERE'S WHERE THINGS START TO SPLAY OUT.
IN THE MEETING, IT APPEAR THERE'S WAS A DISCUSSION ABOUT
THE PACE AND THE PROGRESS OF THE FBI'S INQUIRY INTO TRUMP RUSSIA.
IT SEEMS IN THE COURSE OF THAT DISCUSSION, DIRECTOR COMEY
BROUGHT UP THE CONFIRMATION OF DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL ROD
ROSENSTEIN IN LATE APRIL IN A WAY THAT SUGGESTED OR MAYBE GAVE
THE IMPRESSION TO THE SENATORS THAT THE INVESTIGATION MIGHT NOW
PROCEED ON A FASTER TRACK. WHAT WE HAVE SINCE LEARNED
THROUGH OUR SOURCES IS THAT SENATORS WARNER AND BURR RELAYED
THE BASIC CONTENT OF THAT CONVERSATION TO FELLOW MEMBERS
OF THE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE, AS THEY ARE RIGHT TO DO.
AS YOU WOULD EXPECT THEM TO DO AS LEADERS OF THAT COMMITTEE.
BUT FROM THERE, AFTER THEY CONVEYED THAT INFORMATION TO
MEMBERS OF THEIR COMMITTEE, THAT WORD STARTED TO SPREAD.
AND THAT RESULTED IN MULTIPLE PRESS REPORTS THAT COMEY HAD
ASKED FOR MORE RESOURCES JUST DAYS BEFORE HE WAS FIRED.
THIS CLAIM THAT CONTINUES TO BE DENIED BY THE JUSTICE
DEPARTMENT. NOW WHAT EXACTLY JAMES COMEY
ASKED FOR IF ANYTHING, AGAIN, WE DO NOT KNOW.
JAMES COMEY DOES NOT TALK TO ME. WE KNOW THAT DIRECTOR COMEY LAST
MET IN PERSON WITH ROD ROSENSTEIN ONE WEEK EARLIER ON
MAY 1st. WE THINK THAT MEETING TOOK PLACE
AT THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT. WE THINK IT TOOK PLACE IN THE
PRESENCE OF STAFFERS. WHAT EXACTLY WAS DISCUSSED IN
THAT MEETING, WE DO NOT KNOW. BUT THE DEPUTY OF JUSTICE, ROD
ROSENSTEIN AND THE CURRENT ACTING DIRECTOR OF THE FBI HAVE
SAID NO REQUEST FOR RESOURCES WERE MADE IN THAT MEETING OR AT
ANY OTHER TIME. A WEEK LATER, COMEY BRIEFED
THOSE TWO SENATORS WHICH THEN FOLLOWING COMEY'S SUBSEQUENT
FIRING LED TO MULTIPLE PRESS REPORTS THAT COMEY HAD ASKED FOR
SOMETHING. FROM WHAT WE UNDERSTAND, IF A
REQUEST WAS MADE, IT WAS MORE LIKE -- LIKELY MORE A NEBULOUS
THING THAN A DIRECT APPEAL FOR MORE MONEY OR MORE PERSONNEL.
TO THE EXTENT THAT OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE ENDS UP BEING THE
SHARPEST POINT ON ALL OF THE ARROWS THAT ROBERT MUELLER IS
GOING TO HAVE IN HIS QUIVER. I THINK IT IS WORTH BEING VERY
SPECIFIC ABOUT WHAT EVIDENCE WE'VE GOT ABOUT POTENTIAL
OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE BY THE WHITE HOUSE AND BY THE
PRESIDENT. AND ON THIS POINT OF WHETHER OR
NOT COMEY AT THE MOMENT HE WAS FIRED HAD JUST ASKED FOR MORE
RESOURCES FOR THE INVESTIGATION. I THINK THAT IS BEING SOURCED
MOSTLY TO CONGRESSIONAL SOURCES OR TO PEOPLE WHO GOT THEIR
INFORMATION FROM CONGRESSIONAL SOURCES.
I THINK THOSE CONGRESSIONAL SOURCES THOUGHT THEY WERE
CONVEYING A TRUE THING, AND I THINK BECAUSE OF A GAME OF
TELEPHONE, IT IS POSSIBLE THAT THEY CONVEYED SOMETHING THAT HAD
MUCH SHARPER POINT ON IT THAN WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED BETWEEN
JAMES COMEY AND THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT.
AND I WILL LEAVE THERE IT. BECAUSE THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I
KNOW, AND I KNOW NOTHING MORE THAN THAT.
BUT BOY IS

Exclusive: Misunderstanding At Root Of James Comey Resources Question? | Rachel Maddow | MSNBC

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