Experts Agree: Donald Trump Is Obstructing Justice In Russia Probe | AM Joy

>>> WE WERE FURIOUS ABOUT THE PAST PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION.
THE MAN WHOSE PRESIDENCY WOULD EVENTUALLY END IN DISGRACE WITH
HIS IMPEACHMENT FOR OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE.
AFTER FIRING THE PERSON RUNNING THE INVESTIGATION INTO HIM AT
THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE. BUT HERE'S WHAT I WANT YOU TO
KNOW. WE GOT THROUGH THAT TUMULTUOUS
TIME. >> WELCOME BACK TO AM JOY.
IT WAS THE HILLARY CLINTON HER SUPPORTERS HAVE BEEN WAITING
FOR, UNPLUGGED AT HER ALMA-MATER.
COMPARE TRUMP'S WIN TO THAT OF FORMER PRESIDENT NIXON WHO HAD
JUST TAKEN OFFICE IN '69 WHEN CLINTON BECAME THE FIRST STUDENT
TO GIVE THE WELLESLEY COMMENCEMENT ADDRESS.
THIS WEEK OFFERING MORE SIGNS THAT THE CURRENT PRESIDENT TRIED
TO INTERFERE WITH THE FBI'S INVESTIGATION OF RUSSIA'S
MEDDLING IN THE 2016 ELECTION. AN INVESTIGATION THAT'S NOW
LOOKING AT TRUMP'S SON-IN-LAW, JARED KUSHNER, AS A PERSON OF
INTEREST. AMONG SEVERAL BOMBSHELL REPORTS
IN "WASHINGTON POST" CAME NEWS THAT TRUMP MADE SEPARATE APPEALS
TO DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE AND DIRECTOR OF
NATIONAL SECURITY AGENCY URGING THEM BOTH TO PUBLICLY DENY THE
EXISTENCE OF EVIDENCE OF COLLUSION BETWEEN HIS CAMPAIGN
AND THE RUSSIANS. BOTH MEN REPORTEDLY REFUSED TO
COMPLY. JOINING ME, REPUBLICAN
STRATEGIST, RICHARD PAINTER, FORMER CHIEF WHITE HOUSE ETHICS
LAWYER UNDER GEORGE W. BUSH, TAMERA HOLDER, EQUAL RIGHTS
ATTORNEY. PAUL BUTLER, PROFESSOR.
I WANT TO START, PAUL, WITH DEFINITION OF OBSTRUCTION OF
JUSTICE FROM CORNELL LAW SCHOOL. SAYS OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE
DEFINED AS WHOEVER CORRUPTLY OR BY THREATENING LETTER OR
COMMUNICATION INFLUENCES, OBSTRUCTS, IMPEDES DUE
ADMINISTRATION OF JUSTICE. AND SAYS PERSONS CHARGED UNDER
THIS STATUTE BASED ON ALLEGATION THAT A DEFENDANT INTENDED TO
INTERFERE BY DOING THINGS SUCH AS DESTROYING EVIDENCE OR
INTERFERING WITH DUTIES OF JURS OR COURT OFFICERS.
IN YOUIN YOUR VIEW, DOES DONALD DOING THIS, ELEMENT THREE FROM
THE PRODUCER, SORRY, I AM JUMPING AROUND, ASKING JAMES
COMEY TO PLEDGE LOYALTY, FIRING JAMES COMEY WITH JARED KUSHNER'S
PUSH TO DO SO AFTER HE DIDN'T DO IT.
ASKING DNI TO CERTIFY NO COLLUSION, ASKING NSA DIRECTOR
TO CERTIFY NO COLLUSION, REACHING OUT TO FLYNN TO SAY
STRONG WHEN HE IS A PERSON OF INTEREST.
DOES THAT LOOK LIKE OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE ACCORDING TO THE
STATUTE, PAUL BUTLER? >> AS A PROSECUTOR, I'M LOOKING
AT A PATTERN OF CONDUCT. CORRUPTLY IMPEDE AN OFFICIAL
PROCEEDING, CORRUPTLY MEANS YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING WAS
WRONG. WELL, YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING
IS WRONG WHEN YOU'RE MEETING WITH THE FBI DIRECTOR AND YOU
ASK THE VICE PRESIDENT AND THE ATTORNEY GENERAL TO LEAVE THE
ROOM SO YOU CAN HAVE A PRIVATE CONVERSATION ABOUT GIVE MY BOY
MIKE FLYNN A BREAK. YOU LOOK AT A PATTERN OF CONDUCT
WHERE AGAIN, YOU REACH OUT TO THE INTELLIGENCE DIRECTORS TO
GIVE FLYNN A BREAK AND THEY SAY NO, WE CAN'T CALL OFF THE FBI.
THEN YOU GO TO THE FBI DIRECTOR, HE SAYS NO, I CAN'T DO THAT, I
CAN'T SHOW YOU ANY LOYALTY, AND THEN YOU FIRE THAT DIRECTOR.
AND THEN, JOY, AFTER ALL OF THAT, YOU KNOW FLYNN IS UNDER
INVESTIGATION. YOU GIVE HIM A CALL.
YOU SAY WORDS TO THE EFFECT OF MAN, I KNOW THE FEDS ARE AFTER
YOU, BUT KEEP YOUR HEAD UP. THE STRUGGLE IS REAL.
GIVE ME A BREAK. I'VE SEEN OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE
CONVICTIONS ON LESS EVIDENCE THAN THIS.
>> MATTHEW MILLER, YOU ALSO HAVE EXTRAORDINARY INFORMATION COMING
OUT OF SOME OF THE OFFICIALS TO THE RECIPIENTS OF OVERTOURS FROM
DONALD TRUMP. ADMIRAL MIKE ROGERS ADDRESSED
STAFF OF NATIONAL SECURITY AGENCY.
THIS IS UNUSUAL FOR INFORMATION LIKE THIS TO COME OUT, UNUSUAL
TO DO THIS FULL BRIEFING THAT WOULD BECOME PUBLIC, THIS IS IN
THE OBSERVER. ADMIRAL ROGERS TOOK THE UNUSUAL
STEP OF ADDRESSING THE ENTIRE NSA WORK FORCE TO TELL THEM WHAT
TRANSPIRED WITH THE PRESIDENT. ROGERS REPORTEDLY ADMITTED THAT
PRESIDENT TRUMP ASKED HIM TO DISCREDIT THE FBI AND JAMES
COMEY WHICH THE ADMIRAL FLATLY REFUSE TO DO AND STATED THERE'S
NO QUESTION THAT WE, MEANING NSA, HAVE EVIDENCE OF ELECTION
INVOLVEMENT AND QUESTIONABLE CONTACTS WITH THE RUSSIANS.
THAT'S EXTRAORDINARY. >> IT IS EXTRAORDINARY.
WE HAVE SEEN THE PRESIDENT CALL THE DIRECTOR OF THE FBI, SEEN
HIM CALL DIRECTOR OF THE NSA, DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL
INTELLIGENCE. I THINK THE BIG QUESTION OTHER
PEOPLE HE MAY HAVE CALLED, TWO PEOPLE HAVEN'T TALKED ABOUT
INTERACTIONS WITH THE PRESIDENT WITH RESPECT TO THIS CASE, JEFF
SESSIONS, ATTORNEY GENERAL, AND ROD ROSENSTEIN, DEPUTY ATTORNEY
GENERAL. HARD FOR ME TO BELIEVE WITH THE
PRESIDENT SO ANGRY HOW THE CASE WAS HANDLED THAT HE WAS CALLING
PEOPLE IN THE INTELLIGTELLIGENC COMMUNITY, WASN'T CALLING JEFF
SESSIONS, MAYBE HIS CLOSEST ALLY IN THE ADMINISTRATION,
COMPLAINING ABOUT HOW THE INVESTIGATION WAS HANDLED.
THAT'S KEY, JEFF SESSIONS AND ROD ROSENSTEIN SIGNED OFF ON THE
FIRING OF JIM COMEY. ONE OF THE QUESTIONS WE HAVE TO
ASK, WILL FALL TO CONGRESS TO ASK, WHAT CONVERSATIONS DID THEY
HAVE WITH THE PRESIDENT, WHAT CONVERSATIONS DID THEY HAVE WITH
OTHER PEOPLE IN THE WHITE HOUSE. IF HE WAS COMPLAINING TO THEM
ABOUT THE WAY COMEY WAS HANDLING THE INVESTIGATION BEFORE HE
FIRED HIM, I THINK THAT'S ANOTHER PIECE OF EVIDENCE THAT
GOES TO HIS INTENT IN MAKING THAT DECISION.
>> AND RICHARD PAINTER, DAVID MADE AN IMPORTANT POINT, FRAMING
IT AS LEGAL VERSUS ILLEGAL, RATHER THAN ADDING QUESTION OF
WHETHER OR NOT THESE ARE BASELINE ETHICAL FOR A PRESIDENT
IN AN ADMINISTRATION, REGARDLESS IF YOU PROVE THE CRIME OF
OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE, AS A POLITICAL AND ETHICAL MATTER,
THESE ARE PROBLEMATIC. YOU AS FORMER WHITE HOUSE ETHICS
COUNSEL, WOULD YOU HAVE EVER AUTHORIZED A PRESIDENT OF THE
UNITED STATES TO EVEN DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, NAMELY USHER THE
ATTORNEY GENERAL OUT OF THE ROOM SO THE PRESIDENT COULD HAVE A
PRIVATE CONVERSATION WITH THE FBI DIRECTOR WHO IS
INVESTIGATING HIS CAMPAIGN. >> ABSOLUTELY NOT.
THIS IS CLEAR EVIDENCE OF OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE.
WE'VE ALSO HAD SEVERAL ADMINISTRATION OFFICIALS LIE
ABOUT THEIR CONTACTS WITH THE RUSSIANS.
NOW WE HEAR THAT ADMINISTRATION OFFICIALS IN THE TRANSITION TEAM
WERE TRYING TO ESTABLISH SECRET COMMUNICATION, ENCRYPTED
COMMUNICATIONS WITH THE RUSSIANS.
ALL I CAN SAY IS IF PRESIDENT OBAMA'S TRANSITION TEAM TRIED
THAT, PRESIDENT BUSH'S TEAM WOULD HAVE MADE SURE THEY WERE
LOCKED UP, WOULD HAVE TOLD THE PRESIDENT-ELECT PICK UP YOUR MEN
IN GUANTANAMO ON JANUARY 20. THIS IS TREASON.
VIOLATION OF FEDERAL LAW TO BE COMMUNICATING ENCRYPTED
MESSAGES, NEGOTIATING WITH THE RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT BEFORE HE
TAKES OFFICE. I AM AMAZED ANYONE ON CAPITOL
HILL IS TOLERATING A COMBINATION OF OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE,
RUSSIAN ESPIONAGE, COLLABORATION WITH RUSSIAN ESPIONAGE, NOW

VIOLATIONS OF THE LOGAN ACT. VERY SERIOUS FOR THIS
ADMINISTRATION. >> IT DOES BEG THE QUESTION,
WHERE ARE THE RESIGNATIONS, WHERE IS THE OUTRAGE ON CAPITOL
HILL. RICHARD PAINTER MAKES A GOOD
POINT. IF ANYTHING CLOSE TO THIS
HAPPENED IN THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION, REPUBLICANS
WOULD HAVE IMMEDIATELY BEGUN I AM IMPEACHING THE PRESIDENT OF
THE UNITED STATES. >> THERE IS NO ACCOUNTABILITY.
LET'S BE HONEST. PRESIDENT OBAMA WAS VERY SMART
IN THAT HE NEVER MET DIRECTLY ONE ON ONE WITH THE FBI
DIRECTOR, MUELLER OR COMEY. HE ALWAYS MADE SURE TO HAVE
SOMEBODY ELSE IN THE ROOM. THAT'S BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO
PRESERVE THE INTEGRITY OF BOTH THE FBI AND THE PRESIDENCY.
THE PRESIDENT HIMSELF HAS NOT PRESERVED THE INTEGRITY WHEN THE
INVESTIGATIONS HAVE COME UP. HE IS TALKING TO DAN COATS,
TALKING TO MIKE ROGERS, HAS TO BE TALKING TO CIA DIRECTOR
POMPEO, BEGGING THEM TO DO THEIR JOB BECAUSE THEY SERVE HIM.
HE FUNDAMENTALLY DOES NOT UNDERSTAND THE ROLE OF THE
PRESIDENT. THE PRESIDENT HAS HIRING AND
FIRING POWER. CANNOT SAY I WANT YOU TO GO
INVESTIGATE THIS AND THAT, STOP INVESTIGATING THIS.
>> IT IS MORE THAN THAT, NOT JUST TALKING TO THEM.
ACCORDING TO THIS PIECE IN THE OBSERVER, ENCOURAGING THE
NATIONAL SECURITY AGENCY DIRECTOR, HEAD OF THE NSA, TO
DISCREDIT THE HEAD OF THE FBI, TO DISCREDIT JAMES COMEY.
I WANT TO PLAY FOR YOU WHAT RICHARD NIXON DID THAT ALMOST
GOT HIM IMPEACHED, GOT REPUBLICANS TO WALK INTO THE
OFFICE AND SAY MR. PRESIDENT, YOU NEED TO RESIGN.
IT WAS HIM ATTEMPTING TO GET THE CIA TO INTERFERE WITH THE FBI
WITH THE INVESTIGATION OF WATERGATE.
LISTEN TO HIS CHIEF OF STAFF, ON JUNE 23, 1972 IN ONE OF THEHE
NIXON RECORDED CALLS. >> BY THE WAY TO HANDLE THIS NOW
IS FOR US TO HAVE WALTERS CALL PAT GRAY AND JUST SAY STAY THE
HELL OUT OF THIS, THIS IS -- THERE'S SOME BUSINESS HERE WE
DON'T WANT YOU GOING ANY FURTHER ON.
THAT'S NOT AN UNUSUAL DEVELOPMENT.
>> IN A SENSE, LEVEL OF OUTRAGE ON THE DEMOCRATIC SIDE IS
STUNNING, YOU HAVE A FEW PEOPLE LIKE MAXINE WATERS WHO ARE
SAYING IT, BUT DO YOU THINK AT THIS POINT WE HAVE ENOUGH
EVIDENCE THAT THERE'S A SERIOUS CRISIS OF THE PRESIDENCY, MANY
ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE MORE SERIOUS THAN WE HAD WITH RICHARD NIXON?
>> OH, YEAH. WHAT RICHARD NIXON, WHAT THE TV
PLAYED, WHAT HE DID IS CHILD'S PLAY COMPARED TO WHAT WE ARE
SEEING HERE. WE ARE TALKING ABOUT CRIMES
HERE, BUT YOU WANT TO KNOW INTENT.
THE INTENT IS CLEAR. AND THE INTENT IS THAT DONALD
TRUMP HAS SIGNIFICANT BUSINESS DEALINGS IN RUSSIA.
THAT'S NOT JUST MAKING THINGS UP.
IT'S TRUE. WE KNOW IT.
HE'S SAID IT. AND THE PEOPLE AROUND HIM HAVE
HAD SIGNIFICANT BUSINESS DEALINGS AROUND RUSSIA OR WITH
RUSSIA. AND NOW THE NEWS IS JUST THIS
WEEK THAT HIS OWN ATTORNEY, HE IS NOW HIRING OUTSIDE COUNSEL
WHO GUESS WHAT, NOT ONLY THREATENED TO SUE "NEW YORK
TIMES" TWICE THIS YEAR, BUT NOW IS REPRESENTING THE BIGGEST
SAVINGS BANK, SPEER BANK, RUSSIAN BANK, IN A CORRUPTION
CASE IN THE UNITED STATES FOR HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS.
SO EVERY SINGLE PERSON THAT DONALD TRUMP CHOOSES TO
ASSOCIATE WITH HIMSELF HAS SIGNIFICANT BUSINESS TIES TO
RUSSIA AND THAT IS W WHY WE NEE TO BE VERY CONCERNED, IT IS NOT
JUST THE CRIME BUT INTEND OF WHAT HE AND THE PEOPLE AROUND
HIM ARE DOING, AND THE REASON WHY HE DOESN'T WANT TO GET RID
OF THEM. >> NOT TO MENTION CONSIDERING
HIRING JOE LIEBERMAN TO BE FBI DIRECTOR WHO WORKS FOR THE FIRM
THAT IS PARTNERED BY HIS LAWYER, PERSONAL ATTORNEY, PAUL BUTLER.
HOW MUCH JEOPARDY IS JARED KUSHNER IN GIVEN MONTHS OF
DEALING WITH THE RUSSIANS TO TRY TO SET UP BACK CHANNELS?
>> JARED KUSHNER HAS TWO CHOICES, BOTH OF WHICH ARE
PROBLEMATIC. HE HAS SAID HE IS GOING TO TALK
TO THE SENATE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE.
WELL, THE CHOICE IS NOW HE CAN TAKE THE FIFTH, AND I DON'T SEE
HOW WE HAVE SOMEONE WORKING AS TOP AIDE TO THE PRESIDENT OF THE
UNITED STATES WITH ACCESS TO ALL KINDS OF SECRETS TAKING THE
FIFTH, OR HE CAN TELL THE TRUTH. NOW, WHAT HE SAID IS THAT HE
JUST FORGOT ABOUT THIS DRAMATIC MEETING WHERE HE ASKED THE
RUSSIANS TO LET THEM USE SPY CHANNELS TO HAVE CONVERSATIONS
HE DIDN'T WANT THE GOVERNMENT TO KNOW ABOUT.
THAT CANNOT BE TRUE. IF HE TELLS THE TRUTH, I AM
CONCERNED HE FACES CRIMINAL EXPOSURE.
>> AND SHOULD HE LOSE SECURITY CLEARANCE?
>> I TELL YOU WHAT HAPPENED TO A REGULAR PERSON IN GOVERNMENT, IF
THEY WERE CAUGHT ANYTHING CLOSE TO THIS, HAVING A MEETING THEY
DIDN'T DISCLOSE, HAVING A SECRET CHANNEL, THEY WOULD AT MINIMUM
HAVE SECURITY CLEARANCE SUSPENDED WHILE THE FBI
INVESTIGATED IT. THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED TO ANYONE
IN THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT OR CIA.
IT ULTIMATELY COMES DOWN TO THE PRESIDENT.
THE PRESIDENT WILL GET TO DECIDE WHAT HAPPENS TO KUSHNER'S
SECURITY CLEARANCE. WE HAVE TO BE ASKED, WILL HE BE
TREATED LIKE ALIKE ANYONE ELSE E THE PRESIDENT'S SON-IN-LAW.
UNFORTUNATELY WE KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT.
HE WON'T BE TREATED LIKE OTHERS. >> LAST QUESTION.
IS THERE ANYONE IN THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT CURRENTLY THAT IS
EVEN CAPABLE OF HOLDING THIS ADMINISTRATION ACCOUNTABLE.
EVEN JEFF SESSIONS, ATTORNEY GENERAL OF THE UNITED STATES, IS
PART OF THE CLUB. >> WELL, I WAS IN WASHINGTON TWO
DAYS AGO SPEAKING WITH SOME MEMBERS OF THE HOUSE OF
REPRESENTATIVES, BUT SO FAR ONLY THE DEMOCRATS SEEM TO BE
INTERESTED IN THIS. AND THIS IS A BIG TRAGEDY FOR
THE REPUBLICAN PARTY. I HAVE BEEN WITH THE REPUBLICAN
PARTY FOR 30 YEARS BUT I'VE GOT TO SAY I REMEMBER THE NIXON
SITUATION AND HE MAY HAVE BEEN A CROOK, BUT AT LEAST HE WAS OUR
CROOK. HE WAS NOT IN BED WITH THE
RUSSIANS. WE DIDN'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT
THE NATIONAL SECURITY OF OUR COUNTRY.
>> AMEN TO THAT.

Experts Agree: Donald Trump Is Obstructing Justice In Russia Probe | AM Joy | MSNBC

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