Laurence Tribe: A series Of High Crimes And Misdemeanors | The Last Word

>>> I SAID IF IT'S POSSIBLE, WILL YOU LET ME ME AM I UNDER
INVESTIGATION. HE SAID YOU ARE NOT UNDER
INVESTIGATION. >> YOU CAN ASK THE FBI DIRECTOR
IF YOU'RE UNDER INVESTIGATION. I CAN ASK THE FBI DIRECTOR IF
I'M UNDER INVESTIGATION. BUT CAN YOU ASK THE FBI DIRECTOR
IF YOU'RE UNDER INVESTIGATION IF YOU'RE THE PRESIDENT OF THE
UNITED STATES AND YOU HAVE THE POWER TO FIRE THE FBI DIRECTOR?
>> ISN'T IT INAPPROPRIATE FOR THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED
STATES TO ASK THE FBI DIRECTOR DIRECTLY IF HE IS UNDER
INVESTIGATION? >> NO, I DON'T BELIEVE IT IS.
>> ONE OF THESE CONVERSATIONS THE PRESIDENT SAID HAPPENED AT A
DINNER WHERE THE FBI DIRECTOR ACCORDING TO THE PRESIDENT WAS
ASKING TO STAY ON AS FBI DIRECTOR.
DON'T YOU SEE HOW THAT'S A CONFLICT OF INTEREST?
THE FBI DIRECTOR IS SAYING HE WANTS TO KEEP HIS JOB, AND THE
PRESIDENT IS ASKING WHETHER OR NOT HE IS UNDER INVESTIGATION?
>> I DON'T SEE THAT AS A CONFLICT OF INTEREST, AND
NEITHER DO THE MANY LEGAL SCHOLARS AND OTHERS THAT HAVE
BEEN COMMENTING ON IT FOR THE LAST HOUR.
SO NO, I DON'T SEE THAT AS AN ISSUE.
>> JOINING US NOW, JOINING US NOW LAURENCE TRIBE, HARVARD LAW
PROFESSOR. PROFESSOR TRIBE, SO, I CAN ASK
THE FBI DIRECTOR IF I'M UNDER INVESTIGATION.
BUT IF HAVE I THE POWER TO FIRE THE FBI DIRECTOR, I'M PRESIDENT
OF THE UNITED STATES, WHAT ARE THE IMPLICATIONS OF ME THEN
ASKING THE FBI DIRECTOR IF I'M UNDER INVESTIGATION?
>> WELL, IT'S MUCH WORSE THAN JUST A CONFLICT OF INTEREST.
YOU'RE ESSENTIALLY DANGLING IN FRONT OF THE PERSON THAT IS
SUPPOSED TO BE INVESTIGATING THE CHAOS SWIRLING AROUND YOU, AND
PERHAPS YOU. YOU'RE BASICALLY SAYING IF YOU
WILL ASSURE ME THAT I'M NOT GOING TO BE UNDER INVESTIGATION,
THEN MAYBE I'LL KEEP YOU ON. WE'LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS.
IT'S ESSENTIALLY THE LANGUAGE OF BRIBERY.
IT'S THE LANGUAGE OF THE UNDERWORLD, OF RACKETEERING, NOT
THE LANGUAGE OF A PRESIDENT WHO IS SUPPOSED TO BE ENFORCING THE
RULE OF LAW. IT'S STAGGERING.
I MEAN, FOR ALL OF THE BIZARRE THINGS THAT HAVE HAPPENED IN
THESE 112 OR 113 DAYS, THIS IS REALLY LIKE THE 13th CHIME OF A
CLOCK. IT MAKES THE WHOLE THING COME
APART. >> WELL, AND THAT IS WHAT THE
PRESIDENT IS CLAIMING TODAY IN THE CONVERSATION WITH LESTER
HOLT. WE DON'T KNOW IF IT'S TRUE,
BECAUSE, OF COURSE, IT WAS DONALD TRUMP TALKING.
BUT JAMES COMEY NOW HAS LET IT BE KNOWN THROUGH "THE NEW YORK
TIMES" THROUGH ASSOCIATES THAT YES, THERE WAS A DINNER.
JAMES COMEY SAYS THAT THE PRESIDENT INVITED HIM TO THAT
DINNER, AND HE FELT THAT HE COULDN'T REFUSE A MEETING WITH
THE PRESIDENT. AND AT THAT DINNER, HE WAS ASKED
BY THE PRESIDENT TO PLEDGE HIS PERSONAL LOYALTY TO THE
PRESIDENT. YOUR REACTION TO THAT?
>> MY REACTION IS IT'S STAGGERING.
IF THAT IS CLEARLY ON ITS FACE OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE.
AND IT IS CHARACTERISTIC OF THE WAY WE KNOW DONALD TRUMP TALKS
AND THE WAY HE HAS BEHAVED. HE ONLY WANTS LOYALISTS, YES
MEN. AND PERHAPS SOME YES WOMEN
AROUND HIM. AND IN THIS CASE, WHAT LOYALTY
CLEARLY MEANS. AND I THINK THE STATEMENTS THAT
DIRECTOR COMEY HAS MADE TO CLOSE ASSOCIATES VALIDATE THIS VIEW.
WHAT IT REALLY MEANS IS CAN I COUNT ON YOU NOT TO MAKE ME A
TARGET OF THIS INVESTIGATION? THAT'S CLEARLY AN IMPERMISSIBLE
QUESTION. SO EITHER TRUMP'S OWN ACCOUNT OF
THE DISCUSSION IS TRUE, IN WHICH CASE HE IS GUILTY OF OBSTRUCTION
OF JUSTICE IN ONE RESPECT, OR MUCH MORE LIKELY COMEY'S ACCOUNT
IS TRUE IN WHICH C COMEY GAVE H NO ASSURANCES, SAID YOU CAN
COUNT ON ME TO BE HONEST, BUT NOT TO BE RELIABLE AND NOT TO
SWEAR FEALTY TO YOU. MY LOYALTY IS TO THE LAW AND TO
THE CONSTITUTION. IN WHICH CASE, AGAIN, TRUMP IS
GUILTY OF ATTEMPTING TO SUBORN OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE.
EITHER WAY, AS WITH THE FIRST ARTICLE OF IMPEACHMENT AGAINST
RICHARD NIXON, THIS IS A SERIES OF HIGH CRIMES AND MISDEMEANORS
ALL BY ITSELF, REGARDLESS OF WHETHER TRUMP WAS OR WAS NOT
PART OF A COLLUSIVE PLOT WITH RUSSIA THERE ARE TWO KINDS OF
INDEFENSIBLE HERE. WHAT IS THE TRUTH OF ALL OF THE
COMPLICATED INTERACTION WAS MANAFORT AND STONE AND FLYNN AND
THE WHOLE -- THE WHOLE CATASTROPHE WITH RUSSIA?
THAT'S THE UNDERLYING CONDUCT. BUT WHATEVER THE UNDERLYING
CONDUCT, SOMETIMES THE COVER-UP IS AT LEAST AS BAD.
AND IN THIS CASE, THE COVER-UP IS NOW COMPLETELY ON ITS FACE.
I MEAN, BY CHANGING THE STORY AS HE DID, BY IN EFFECT HANGING ALL
OF HIS STAFF AND ALL OF HIS ASSISTANTS AND THE VICE
PRESIDENT OUT TO DRY, AND SUDDENLY COMING UP WITH A NEW
TRUTH, THE PRESIDENT HAS MADE CLEAR THAT HE IS TRYING TO COVER
UP THE COVER UP. AND I THINK WE ARE NOW IN A
SITUATION WHERE THE ONLY WAY TO AVOID CONSTITUTIONAL CRISIS IS
FOR MEMBERS OF CONGRESS TO TO BASICALLY GET A SPINE OR GROW A
PAIR AND REALLY STAND UP TO THEIR RESPONSIBILITIES TO THE
LAW. SO WE NEED AN INDEPENDENT
COUNCIL. BUT WE ALSO NEED AN INDEPENDENT
ACTIVE CONGRESS. >> PROFESSOR, YOU'VE JOINED A
GROUP CALLED THE SHADOW CABINET, SWAY GROUP OF POLICY EXPERTS
THAT WILL FOLLOW STATEMENTS AND POSITIONS MADE BY THE PRESIDENT
AND HIS CABINET. >> RIGHT.
>> AND DEBUNK AND INTERPRET AS NEEDED.
YOU'LL BE IN THE ROLE THERE AS THE CITIZEN ATTORNEY GENERAL IN
THAT SHADOW CABINET. I ASSUME YOU WILL BE FOCUSING
MOSTLY ON THIS RUSSIA INVESTIGATION?
BUT YOU'VE ALSO BEEN FOCUSING VERY HEAVY ON EMOLUMENTS.
DO THOSE TWO THINGS INTERSECT? >> THEY CERTAINLY DO.
WHEN THE PRESIDENT BASICALLY WENT OUT OF HIS WHAT I TO SAY
THAT, YOU KNOW, I DON'T HAVE ANY INVESTMENTS IN RUSSIA, AS RON
KLAIN RIGHTLY SAID, RUSSIA MAY HAVE INVESTMENTS IN HIM.
THE EMOLUMENTS PROBLEM IS A PROBLEM OF DIVIDED LOYALTY.
AND WE HAVE A LAWSUIT PENDING AGAINST THE PRESIDENT SAYING
THAT HE HAS SO MANY FOREIGN ENTANGLEMENTS THAT HE IS IN
CONSTANT VIOLATION OF THE CONSTITUTION.
BECAUSE BASICALLY, HE IS IN A POSITION OF GETTING BENEFITS
FROM FOREIGN GOVERNMENTS, INCLUDING PERHAPS LOANS, AND
OWING THINGS TO FOREIGN GOVERNMENTS IN VIOLATION OF A
BASIC PRINCIPLE THAT THE FRAMERS PUT IN PLACE TO AVOID HAVING OUR
PRESIDENT CORRUPTED BY FOREIGN POWERS.
AND IF WE HAD ATTORNEY GENERAL THAT WE COULD TRUST, THEN THERE
WOULD BE DIRECT INVESTIGATION BY THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT.
INTO TINTO THE PRESIDENT'S VIOL OF THE EMOLUMENTS CLAUSES.
INSTEAD WE HAVE TO SUE HIM. AND I THINK WE'RE GOING TO
SUCCEED IN GETTING A JUDICIAL
DECREE. SO STAY TUNED.

Laurence Tribe: A series Of High Crimes And Misdemeanors | The Last Word | MSNBC

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