Trump's Businesses May Lead To His Undoing | Morning Joe

>> OH, MY GOSH. >> THAT'S CATCHY.
>> BEFORE THE BREAK WE TOLD YOU ABOUT THE EFFORTS FROM THE STATE
OF MARYLAND AND WASHINGTON, D.C., TO SUE THE PRESIDENT,
ACCUSING HIM OF PAYMENTS FROM FOREIGN GOVERNMENTS.
JOINING US NOW FROM CAPITOL HILL, DEPUTY WASHINGTON BUREAU
CHIEF FOR "TIME" MAGAZINE ALEX ALTMAN.
HIS NEW COVER STORY DETAILS HOW PRESIDENT TRUMP'S WASHINGTON,
D.C., HOTEL IS RAISING AN INCREAING AMOUNT OF ETHICAL
CONCERNS AND HE WRITES IN PART THIS.
THIS IS THE NEW TOWN SQUARE IN DONALD TRUMP'S WASHINGTON.
TOURISTS PERCH ON THE BLUE VELVET SOFAS IN THE LOBBY,
SNAPPING CELL PHONE PICTURES AS POWER PLAYERS STREAM ACROSS THE
DARK MARBLE FLOORS AND CREAM CARPETS.
IN THE PAST, PRESIDENTS HAVE OFTEN GONE TO GREAT LENGTHS TO
ASSURE THE PUBLIC THAT THEY AREN'T MIXING THE NATION'S
BUSINESS WITH THEIR OWN. TRUMP HAS TAKEN A DIFFERENT
APPROACH. HE HAS STEPPED AWAY FROM THE
OPERATIONS OF HIS BUSINESS, BUT HE HAS NOT RELINQUISHED
OWNERSHIP. CRITICS SAY THE APPROACH FALLS
FAR SHORT. HE IS ONE GREAT BIG EXAMPLE OF
EXPLOITING PUBLIC OFFICE FOR PRIVATE GAIN, SAYS KATHLEEN
CLARK, A LAW PROFESSOR AT WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY IN ST.
LOUIS, WHO TRAINS GOVERNMENTS AROUND THE WORLD IN ETHICS AND
ANTI-CORRUPTION PRACTICES. OF COURSE IT'S A SCANDAL.
>> SO, ALEX, IS THIS A GUY THAT KNOWS HOW TO GO RIGHT UP TO THE
LINE BUT NEVER CROSSES IT OR DO YOU THINK IN YOUR INVESTIGATING
THAT ACTUALLY THERE IS SOMETHING THAT THESE STATES ATTORNEYS
GENERALS MAY BE ABLE TO SINK THEIR TEETH INTO?
>> WELL, ONE QUESTION WITH THE LAWSUITS IS GOING TO BE
STANDING. THE PRESIDENT HAS TRADITIONALLY
HAD A GREAT DEAL OF LATITUDE FROM THE CONGRESS AND FROM THE
SUPREME COURT IN TERMS OF WHAT'S
ILLEGAL. I THINK THE PRESIDENT'S LAWYERS
MAY BE ON SOLID GROUND IN SAYING NOTHING THAT HE'S DONE HAS
CROSSED THE LINE. THERE'S NOT JUST THE QUESTION OF
CONFLICTS OF INTEREST BUT THE QUESTION OF THE APPEARANCE
THEREOF. WE'VE NEVER HAD A PRESIDENT TAKE
OFFICE WITH A GLOBAL EMPIRE, FOREIGN OUTPOSTS AND A TROPHY
HOTEL ON PENNSYLVANIA AVENUE RIGHT IN THE SHADOW OF THE WHITE
HOUSE. >> AND HE GOES TO ALL OF HIS
FACILITIES JUST ABOUT EVERY WEEKEND.
THIS WEEKEND. THERE HAVE BEEN PROMISES THAT HE
MIGHT SHOW UP AT WEDDING RECEPTIONS.
THIS WEEKEND HE DID SHOW UP AT A WEDDING RECEPTION AT ONE OF HIS
HOTELS. >> YEAH.
THIS IS SOMETHING THAT HE HAS DONE SINCE THE BEGINNING OF HIS
CAMPAIGN. YOU KNOW, REPORTERS AND HIS
PRESS CORPS CAN RECALL BEING DRAGGED ALONG TO TRUMP PROPERTY
AFTER TRUMP PROPERTY. I MEAN I CAN RECALL VISITING ONE
OF HIS GOLF COURSES IN SCOTLAND RIGHT BEFORE THE REPUBLICAN
CONVENTION, WHICH STRUCK A LOT OF PEOPLE AS ODD.
AS YOU NOTE, IT IS SOMETHING HE HAS CONTINUED DURING THE
PRESIDENCY. HE DECAMPS FOR HIS GOLF COURSE
IN VIRGINIA AND NEW JERSEY ALL THE TIME.
HE'S BROUGHT FOREIGN LEADERS TO MAR-A-LAGO, HIS FLORIDA ESTATE,
AND IT'S SOMETHING THAT HE'S
DONE. >> AND THE DUES ARE UP AT
MAR-A-LAGO. THEY RAISED THE PRICE.
>> THAT'S CORRECT. I BELIEVE THEY RAISED THE
INITIATION FEE FOR NEW MEMBERS FROM $100,000 TO $200,000.
>> OKAY. HOW'S THAT NOT BENEFITING?
PRESIDENT TRUMP'S WASHINGTON, D.C. HOTEL ISSUE COULD BE PART
OF A LARGER ETHICS ISSUE. LET'S BRING IN ANDREW RICE.
HIS NEW PIECE ASKS THE QUESTIONS IS TRUMP INC. HIS GREATEST
VUBLNER ABILITY. EVEN AS REPUBLICANS LIKE LINDSEY
GRAHAM STARTED TO TALK ABOUT INVESTIGATING TRUMP'S FINANCES,
IT BEGAN TO OCCUR TO MANY PEOPLE THAT THE PRESIDENT'S DEFIANT
REFUSAL TO SEPARATE HIMSELF FROM HIS TANGLE OF INTERNATIONAL
BUSINESS INTERESTS MIGHT REPRESENT SOMETHING MORE OMINOUS
THAN MERE STUBBORNNESS, THAT HIS INVETERATE HUCKSTERISM MIGHT NOT
BE A SIMPLE PERSONALITY QUIRK OR AN IMPLAUSIBLE SELLING POINT OF
HIS SUCCESSFUL CAMPAIGN, BUT THE FATAL WEAKNESS OF HIS
PRESIDENCY. >> AND THE BELIEF OF A LOT OF
PEOPLE THAT HE'S IN IT FOR THE MONEY.
HE'S GOING TO MAKE AS MUCH MONEY AS HE CAN IN OFFICE AND OUT OF
OFFICE. >> THIS GOES TO THE CENTER OF
THIS UNPRECEDENTED SITUATION THAT WE FIND OURSELVES IN AS A
COUNTRY, IN THAT, YOU KNOW, TRUMP HAS NOT DIVESTED HIS
BUSINESS INTERESTS. YOU KNOW, THE CONFLICTS ARE
REAL. I MEAN THERE'S A RECENT REPORT
IN "THE WALL STREET JOURNAL" OR IN "THE DAILY CALLER" SAUDI
ARABIA SPENT $270,000 DURING THE TRANSITION AT THIS WASHINGTON
HOTEL. SO THAT'S AN EXAMPLE OF LIKE A
FOREIGN GOVERNMENT PUTTING A QUARTER OF A MILLION DOLLARS
INTO THE TRUMP ORGANIZATION'S POCKETS.
>> THAT'S ACTUALLY WHAT I WAS GOING TO ASK YOU AND ALSO TO
ALEX AS WELL, THIS $270,000 TAB COINCIDING WITH A SAUDI LOBBYING
PUSH AGAINST LEGISLATION TO ALLOW VICTIMS OF TERRORIST
ATTACKS TO SUE FOREIGN GOVERNMENTS THAT CAME OUT OF
9/11, DIPLOMATS FROM BAHRAIN, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT EARLIER, THE
WAY THE PRESIDENT TALKS TO THOSE NATIONS AS COMPARED TO OUR
ALLIES. HAVE YOU EVER SEEN THERE ARE
ALLIES USING THE HOTEL AND HOW THE PRESIDENT TALKS ABOUT THESE
COUNTRIES AND HIS OWN BUSINESS INTERESTS?
>> I THINK CLEARLY, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A LOT OF EVIDENCE, JUST
SMALL THINGS ON SOCIAL MEDIA, LIKE THE AMBASSADOR OF GEORGIA
TWEETING OUT A PICTURE OF THE TRUMP HOTEL AND SAYING BEST
DINING EXPERIENCE I'VE EVER HAD, ET CETERA.
YOU KNOW, THESE SEEM LIKE SMALL THINGS.
BUT WE KNOW THAT TRUMP IS, AS NORM EISEN, THE HEAD OF CREW,
WHO IS BRINGING THESE -- THIS EMOLUMENTS LAWSUIT, HE'S
INFLUENCED BY THESE MINOR FORMS OF TRIBUTE SEEMINGLY FROM THE
PUBLIC RECORD. IF YOU'RE A DIPLOMAT AND YOU
HAVE A CHOICE BETWEEN THE FOUR SEASONS AND THE TRUMP HOTEL, WHY
NOT STAY AT THE TRUMP HOTEL. >> ALEX, THE UNITED STATES'
FOREIGN POLICY, THE PRESIDENT HAS TREATED OUR ALLIES IN EUROPE
BADLY AND EMBRACED TYRANTS IN TURKEY AND IN THE PHILIPPINES,
WHERE TWO HUGE TRUMP PROPERTIES EXIST.
>> THAT'S RIGHT. NOT ONLY DOES IT RAISE QUESTIONS
ABOUT WHY THE PRESIDENT IS SAYING AND DOING THE THINGS THAT
HE'S DOING WITH RESPECT TO GEOPOLITICAL HOT SPOTS, BUT JUST
ANSWER THE PREVIOUS QUESTION. WE'VE ALSO SEEN POWERFUL
DOMESTIC INTERESTS TAKE AN INTEREST IN PATRONIZING THE
PRESIDENT'S PROPERTY. DURING THE PRESIDENTIAL
TRANSITION, THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION, WHICH IS IS A
POWERFUL CONSERVATIVE THINKTANK HERE IN D.C., PERHAPS ONE THAT'S
DONE MORE THAN ANY OTHER TO FORM THE TRUMP POLICIES, THANKED
DONORS WITH A GALA AT THE TRUMP. WE'VE SEEN A BANQUET, PUT UP
POWERFUL INTERNATIONAL CLERICS AT THE TRUMP HOTEL.
THESE ARE ALL CAUSE FOR CONCERN. >> IT'S UNSEEMLY, IT HAS THE
APPEARANCE OF CONFLICT OF INTEREST.
MY HUNCH IS YOU'RE NEVER GOING TO BE ABLE TO SHOW QUID PRO QUOS
SO I DON'T THINK ULTIMATELY THIS DOG WILL HUNT BUT IT CREATES THE
PERCEPTION OF AN ADMINISTRATION THAT ISN'T DEALING WITH THE
WHITE HOUSE, THIS SOUNDS CORNY, AS CHERISHED AS IT IS.
IT'S AN UNBELIEVABLE RESPONSIBILITY AND OBLIGATION
AND HONOR TO BE THERE, AND ONE JUST
JUST SENSES THERE'S BEHAVIOR THAT'S INCONSISTENT.
>> STEVE, WHAT'S SO REMARKABLE ABOUT THIS, HERE WE ARE AGAIN,
SIX MONTHS AFTER A CAMPAIGN, NINE MONTHS AFTER A CAMPAIGN.
FOCUSED ON A POLITICAL CANDIDATE WHO USED HER POSITION IN
GOVERNMENT TO SOME PEOPLE ACCUSED HER OF GETTING MONEY
INTO THEIR FOUNDATION, WOULD CHANGE POLICIES, HER HUSBAND
WOULD GO GIVE SPEECHES, AND INSTEAD OF GETTING HIS 250,000,
AND ONCE SHE BECAME SECRETARY OF STATE, GET THE 500,000.
I'LL BE DAMMED IF WE'RE NOT IN A POSITION NOW WHERE IT'S THE SAME
THING. HOW DO YOU PROVE SECRETARY
CLINTON CHANGED U.S. POLICY, BUT IT DID JUST SO HAPPEN TO BILL
CLINTON GET HALF A MILLION DOLLARS FOR A 30 MINUTE SPEECH.
AND, AGAIN, HOW DO WE PREVIEW ANYONE IS GOING IN THERE.
IT'S SLEAZY ON BOTH SIDES. >> THE STUFF DONALD TRUMP WAS
GOING AFTER HILLARY CLINTON FOR A LOT OF REPUBLICANS WERE GOING
FOR HILLARY CLINTON. A LOT ARE SILENT NOW WITH STUFF
MUCH MORE GLARING. IT COMES BACK TO THE ELECTION
WITH HIM. HE GOT THROUGH THE CAMPAIGN.
NOT PUTTING OUT HIS TAX RETURN. THUMBING HIS NOSE AT THE CROWD
ON THE TAX ISSUE. HE FEELS HE GOT ELECTED AND IT'S
VINDICATION AND SO THIS SAME ETHICS CROWD COMES OUT OF HIM.
DIVESTING, BLIND TRUSTING. I THINK HE SAYS I GOT AWAY WITH
THE CAMPAIGN ON TAXES, I'LL GET AWAY.
>> JOE BRINGS UP A GREAT POINT ABOUT THE CLINTON PRACTICES
WHICH I WILL SAY I WAS KIND OF ALONE.
I BROUGHT IT UP IN REALTIME. I'VE GOT THOUGHT IT WAS SLEAZY
TOO. THE CLINTON PRACTICES AS IT
PERTAINS TO SPEECHES SET THE PRECEDENT FOR DONALD TRUMP NOW.
REALLY HARD TO NAIL DONALD TRUMP ON THIS.
DIALING IT RIGHT BACK TO HOW THE CLINTONS PRACTICED THEIR
FINANCIAL GAINS AND KIND OF PUT THAT I RECALL GRIPS ON A LARGE
SECTOR OF SOCIETY THROUGH THEIR FOUNDATION.
BY USING THE SAME. >> AS GEORGE STEPHEN WOULD SAY.
YOU GIVE THEM MONEY BECAUSE YOU WANT TO BUY ACCESS.
IF HE WAS SAYING THAT, YOU KNOW FOREIGN LEADERS WERE SAYING
THAT. BY THE WAY, HOW IS THE CLINTON
FOUNDATION DOING NOW THAT THEY'RE OUT OF OFFICE.
>> I WOULD SAY THE ONE THING, THERE'S A SUBTLE DIFFERENCE HERE
FROM NORMAL CORRUPTION CASES. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE CAUSE OF
THE CONSTITUTION. ABSOLUTE PROHIBITION ON TAKING
BENEFITS FROM FOREIGN GOVERNMENTS.
DON'T HAVE TO PROVE HE DID ANYTHING IN RETURN FOR THIS
MONEY, ALL YOU HAVE TO PROVE SU THAT HE HAS BEEN ACCEPTING.
>> WOULDN'T A JUDGE HAVE TO LOOK AT IT AND SEE HE'S GETTING MORE
THAN FAIR MARKET VALUE. IF THEY BUILD A HOTEL AND PEOPLE
GO VISIT HIS HOTEL, YOU CAN'T GET HIM FOR THAT, BUT IF THERE
SEEMS TO BE A PATTERN OR E-MAILS OR HERE WE ARE LOOKING FOR
E-MAILS AGAIN OR EVIDENCE THAT THERE'S A QUID PROQUO THAT'S
FINE. IF THEY'RE GETTING FAIR MARKET
VALUE FOR A HOTEL IN WASHINGTON, D.C., IT BECOMES DIFFICULT.
THE WORDING IS PRETTY CLEAR. YOU CAN'T TAKE A PROFIT
WHATSOEVER. YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO TAKE
PAYMENTS. >> HE WAS TAKEN.
IF HE BASICALLY IS ONE STEP REMOVED AS OTHER PEOPLE ARE
RUNNING THE BUSINESS, DOESN'T THAT GIVE HIM A CHINESE WALL
THAT PROTECTS HIM FROM THIS ARGUMENT.
>> HE SET UP SOMETHING A DONALD J TRUMP TRUST.
REVOCABLE.
HIS KIDS RUN IT. IT'S NOT PARTICULARLY ARM'S
LENGTH. I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING THAT
ULTIMATELY LITIGATION WILL DETERMINE.
THIS IS LIKE WHY CREW AND OTHER ORGANIZATIONS ARE BRINGING
SUITS. ARE ENTHUSIASTIC ABOUT THEM.
IT WILL ALSO GIVE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR TRUMP'S OPPONENTS OR ETHICAL
ADVOCATES TO GET INTO HIS TAX RETURNS TO GET INTO THE DETAILS
OF HIS FINANCES. >> IT'S GOING TO BE REALLY TOUGH
TO PROVE THIS. JUST AS TOUGH TOLL PROVER QUID
PRO QUO. >> YOU CAN READ THE HIS PIECE IN
THE NEW ISSUE OF "NEW YORK TIMES."
>>> DEMOCRATS STRUGGLE TOLL GET ON THE SAME PAGE.
STEVE KORNACKI, DEEPENING DIVIDE.
>>> ALSO AHEAD, POLITICAL BATTLE LINES ARE BEING REDRAWN ACROSS
EUROPE. EMMANUEL MACRON PARTY IS POISED
FOR AN UNBELIEVABLE WIN IN FRANCE.
WHILE PRIME MINSTER THERESA MAY'S FUTURE IS UNCERTAIN IN THE
UK. AND AS PRESIDENT TRUMP'S
COMMENTS ABOUT LONDON'S MAYOR DRAWS BACKLASH S THE WHITE HOUSE
CONSIDERING POSTPONING OR CANCELLING AN UPCOMING TRIP TO
ENGLAND. LIVE REPORT FROM

Trump's Businesses May Lead To His Undoing | Morning Joe | MSNBC

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