Donald Trump Needs To Call For Sanctions, Says Former Ambassador | Morning Joe

>> I FIND IT DISMAYING AND OBJECTIONABLE THAT PRESIDENT
TRUMP CONTINUES TO DENY THE UNDENIABLE FACT THAT RUSSIA
LAUNCHED A MAJOR CYBERATTACK AGAINST THE UNITED STATES
REGARDLESS AGAINST WHICH PARTY HE LAUNCHED IT AGAINST.
>>> THAT WOULD BE FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO NATO NICHOLAS
BURNS TESTIFYING LAST WEEK ON CAPITOL HILL THE FORMER STATE
DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN AND HARVARD PROFESSOR JOINS US NOW.
VERY GOOD TO HAVE YOU ONBOARD, MR. AMBASSADOR.
>> WHAT DO YOU WANT TO GET OUT OF THE MEETING TODAY?
>> WELL, I THINK PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS TO, OBVIOUSLY, THE FIRST
MEETING BETWEEN THEM. HE HAS TO TAKE THE MEASURE OF
PUTIN. THEY HAVE TO FIND A WAY TO
COMMUNICATE BECAUSE THERE WILL BE CRISES AND MISCOMMUNICATIONS
TO COME. AS ANY OTHER U.S. RUSSIAN SUMMIT
LIKE THIS, YOU HAVE TO CHANNEL THAT COMMUNICATION.
BUT, MOST OF ALL, I THINK WHAT DONALD TRUMP NEEDS TO DO IS TWO
THINGS. HE NEEDS TO BACK UP THE EUROPEAN
UNION ON THESE CONTINUED SANCTIONS AGAINST UKRAINE
BECAUSE WE CAN'T HAVE A SITUATION WHERE WE BEGIN TO EASE
THE SANCTIONS ON RUSSIA OVER ITS ANNEXATION OF CRIMEA AND I
CERTAINLY BELIEVE FOR DOMESTIC REASONS, AS WELL AS FOREIGN
POLICY REASONS, WE HAVE TO SANCTION RUSSIA OVER ITS
INTERFERENCE IN OUR ELECTIONS. THE SENATE VOTED 97-2.
BUT PRESIDENT TRUMP, IT DEPENDS WHO YOU LISTEN TO.
THE SCRIPTED TRUMP OF THE SPEECH YESTERDAY IN POLAND WHERE HE
CRITICIZED -- >> I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT THAT
SPEECH AS FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO NATO.
WHAT DID YOU THINK OF THE SPEECH RECEIVED IN POLAND AND HOW DO
YOU THINK IT WAS RECEIVED IN GERMANY AND AMONG OUR OTHER NATO
ALLIES? >> IT WAS A SPEECH DESIGNED FOR
POLAND. IT STRUCK THE RIGHT NOTES ABOUT
POLISH HISTORY AND IT WAS ALSO A DARK SPEECH.
YOU CAN SEE STEVE BANNON'S INFLUENCE ON IT.
THERE WERE MORE CRITICISMS OF NATO.
AND, SO, A LOT OF CRITICISM OF NATO DEFENSE SPENDING.
SO, I DON'T THINK IT PLAYS WELL IN WESTERN EUROPE BECAUSE IN
WESTERN EUROPE THE IDEA OF THE WEST AND THE PRESIDENT TRUMP
TALKED ABOUT DEFENDING THE WEST. OPEN BORDERS, MEANING
IMMIGRATION. FREE TRADE AND YOU BELIEVE IN
ALLIANCES AND THOSE WEREN'T EXACTLY THE THEMES THAT
PRESIDENT TRUMP IN THAT SPEECH YESTERDAY.
>> SO, IF PRESIDENT TRUMP DOES NOT BRING UP RUSSIAN MEDDLING IN
THE ELECTION IN ANY WAY, IN ANY SERIOUS WAY, IS THAT DERELICTION
OF DUTY? >> OH, I BELIEVE IT IS.
HIS FIRST RESPONSIBILITY IS TO DEFEND THE COUNTRY.
WHAT'S MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE SANCTITY OF OUR ELECTIONS?
WE KNOW THE RUSSIANS INTERFERED AND WE KNOW THEY TRIED TO GET
INTO 21 DATABASES IN VARIOUS STATES IN THE UNITED STATES AND
WE KNOW SOMETHING ABOUT PUTIN AND THAT IS IF YOU DON'T BUILD A
BRICK WALL IN FRONT OF HIM, HE'S GOING TO KEEP GOING.
WE HAVE THE 2018 MIDTERMS RIGHT IN FRONT OF US AND THE 2020
PRESIDENTIAL. HE HAS TO RAISE THIS ISSUE.
HE DOESN'T HAVE REPUBLICAN SUPPORT, AS YOU KNOW.
IN THE SENATE OVER THIS ISSUE. THEY HAVE DESERTED HIM BE
PROPOSING THESE STRONG SANCTIONS AGAINST RUSSIA.
>> KATTY RAY. >> SOMETHING I WANTED TO ASK YOU
ABOUT. YESTERDAY WE SAW THE EUROPEAN
UNION AND THE JAPANESE SIGN A TRADE DEAL WHICH ACCOUNTS FOR
20% OF GLOBAL TRADE. GREAT BRITAIN AND THE UNITED
STATES. TO WHAT EXTENT DO YOU THINK
ACTUALLY, YOU KNOW, I THINK PRESIDENT TRUMP GOES TO EUROPE
WITH A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF DISDAIN FOR EUROPE.
BUT ISN'T AMERICA BEING SQUEEZED OUT OF DEALS AROUND THE WORLD
BECAUSE OF THE PRESIDENT'S WITHDRAWING AMERICA FROM TRADE
PACKS AND HOW MUCH DOES THAT HURT AMERICA'S SECURITY?
>> I THINK THE PRESIDENT AND HIS TEAM WHEN THEY WALKED AWAY FROM
THE TRADE AGREEMENTS AND THE FREEDOM TRADE AGREEMENT THE
EUROPEAN AND THE ASIANS WOULD HAVE NO ALTERNATIVE BUT TO WORK
WITH US ON ONE-ON-ONE TRADE AGREEMENTS AND IT HASN'T TURNED
OUT THAT WAY. YOU REALLY SEE MERKEL AND MACRON
BEING A COUNTERPOINT TO TRUMP RIGHT NOW IN EUROPE.
THEY ARE OPPOSING HIM ON TRADE AND CERTAINLY ON CLIMATE CHANGE.
THEY'RE NOT HAPPY WITH HIS RELATIVELY, I WOULD SAY, VERY
WEAK POLICY TOWARDS RUSSIA. AND THIS IS, KATTY, FOR YOU AND
I AS A BRIT AND AS AN AMERICAN, FOR THE LAST 20 YEARS WE HAVE
SEEN IT AS THE STRONGEST POLLS IN THE WEST BUT IT IS REALLY
PAIRS AND BERLIN AND I WORRY ABOUT AMERICAN CREDIBILITY IN
EUROPE FOR THAT REASON. >> IT'S RICHARD HERE.
WHAT YOU JUST SAID IS, I THINK, FAIRLY FRAMES THE SITUATION.
WHAT ARE YOUR KIND OF HOPES AND FEARS GOING INTO THESE 24 HOURS
COMING OUT OF THE G-7? WHAT IS IT YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE
AND WHAT IS IT YOU'RE WORRIED YOU'RE GOING TO SEE?
>> I THINK WE'RE PROBABLY GOING TO SEE A BIG DIFFERENCE OF
OPINION ON TRADE AND STEEL AND PROBABLY COUNTERSUITS.
BUT YOU AND I HAVE SEEN THAT FOR 30 YEARS.
THAT DOESN'T WORRY ME. WHAT WORRIES ME IS THAT
PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS CONSISTENTLY BECOME KIND OF A CRITIC OF THE
MAJOR INSTITUTIONS OF THE WEST. I GET THE FACT THAT THE
EUROPEANS NEED TO SPEND MORE IN THEIR DEFENSE.
I SPEND TIME PLEADING WITH THEM TO DO THAT WHEN I WAS AMBASSADOR
TO NATO. BUT YOU CAN'T BE A POSITIVE
REAGANS LEADER WHEN YOU'RE CRITICIZING.
HE FOUND A LOT OF FAULT AND THE SAME IS TRUE OF THE EU.
WHAT WORRIES ANGELA MERKEL IN PARTICULAR IS THAT CANDIDATE
TRUMP AND PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS BEEN A VERY CONSISTENT CRITIC OF
THE EU. THESE ARE THE INSTITUTIONS OF
THE WEST. WE BUILT THE WEST ON A UNIFIED
EUROPE AND ON NATO. HE NEEDS TO LEAD THOSE
INSTITUTIONS. A LITTLE BIT OF PRAISE AND A
LITTLE BIT OF SUPPORT, I THINK, WILL GO A LONG WAY HERE.
>> AMBASSADOR BURNS, IT'S WILLIE GEIST.
I WANT TO ASK YOU SOMETHING THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP SAID YESTERDAY
AND THIS IS THE QUESTION OF UNANIMITY AMONG INTEL AGENCIES.
AMONG THE INTEL COMMUNITY ABOUT WHETHER RUSSIA MEDDLED IN THE
ELECTION. OCTOBER 7th OF LAST YEAR PUT OUT
A STATEMENT SAYING, YES, WE BELIEVE THAT RUSSIA, IN FACT,
DID ATTEMPT AT LEAST TO MEDDLE OR INTERFERE IN OUR ELECTION.
PRESIDENT TRUMP SAID YESTERDAY IT WAS ONLY THREE OR FOUR
AGENCIES AND SOME DISPUTE WITHIN THE INTEL COMMUNITY.
SO, JUST TO CLARIFY WHERE YOU ARE SITTING.
WHAT IS THE POSITION ON THE INTEL COMMUNITY ON WHETHER OR
NOT RUSSIA INTERFERED IN THE 2016 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION?
>> WELL, AS I LISTEN TO GENERAL CLAPPER.
THE NSA, CIA AND FBI OFFERED THAT JANUARY 6th REPORT THAT WAS
ISSUED TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE BUT ALL INTELLIGENCE AGENCIES
AND THE 14 OTHERS ALL AGREED WITH IT.
THE FBI AND CIA HAVE BEEN CONSISTENT ABOUT THAT OVER THE
LAST SIX MONTHS. THERE'S NO QUESTION ABOUT IT.
WHEN YOU HAVE A BIG 97-2 VOTE IN THE SENATE, YOU RARELY SEE THAT
THESE DAYS. A BIPARTISAN VOTE.
WHEN I TESTIFY, YOU CAN FEEL THE OPPOSITION TO WHAT RUSSIA HAS
DONE. SO, I THINK IT'S A RED HERRING
TO SUGGEST THAT SOMEHOW THERE IS DIVISION IN THE INTELLIGENCE
COMMUNITY. >> IT IS RED HERRING.
DAVID IGNATIUS, YOU TALKED ABOUT THE 17 INTEL AGENCIES.
THE DEA ISN'T GOING TO COME. THE DEA IS NOT GOING TO COME
DOWN ON IT. THE COAST GUARD IS NOT GOING TO
COME DOWN ON IT. SO, IF ANYBODY IS GOING, WELL,
ONLY FOUR OUT OF THE 17 INTEL -- NO, IT WAS THE MOST -- THE CIA.
THE FBI. THE NSA.
AND, YOU KNOW -- >> THAT'S WHY WE HAVE A
COLLABORATIVE GROUP. THEY LEAD ON RUSSIA
INTELLIGENCE. THEY ALL CAME TO THE SAME
CONCLUSION. THEY MAY POLL FROM THE OTHER
AGENCIES. >> THERE WAS NO DECENT.
>> THERE WAS NO DECENT BEFORE IT ACTUALLY WERE GERMANE TO IT.
SO, EVERYBODY GOING IT WAS FOUR INSTEAD OF 17.
YEAH, IF YOU WOULD LIKE MAYBE SOME OF THE DOGS COULD SNIFF
SOMETHING FOR THE DEA. THAT WOULD MAKE YOU FEEL BETTER.
>> THIS IS THE PROBLEM -- NO ONE HAS EVER OFFERED ANOTHER
EXPLANATION FOR THE HACKING. >> RIGHT.
>> THERE'S BEEN NO EVIDENCE FOR ANY OTHER THEORY OTHER THAN
RUSSIA. >> YOU SAID MAYBE A FAT GUY IN

>> THAT'S AN IMPORTANT CLARIFICATION.
YESTERDAY YOU SAW AN ARGUMENT IT WAS FAKE NEWS THAT THERE WAS A
UNANIMOUS AGREEMENT AMONG INTEL AGENCIES.
>> AGAIN, YOU GO DOWN THE INTEL AGENCIES.
THE ONES THAT WERE ACTUALLY RELEVANT TO FIGURING OUT WHETHER
RUSSIA INTERFERED WERE THE ONES THAT ALL WEIGHED IN SAYING, YES.
DAVID IGNATIUS HAS A QUESTION. >> I WANT TO ASK AMBASSADOR
BURNS A QUESTION. YOU RIGHTLY SAID THAT IT'S
CRUCIAL THAT TRUMP MAY CLEAR HIS OPPOSITION, U.S. OPPOSITION TO
RUSSIAN MEDDLING IN OUR ELECTIELECTION.
THAT SAID, DO YOU THINK IT'S POSSIBLE IN THIS PERIOD OF VERY
BAD U.S./RUSSIAN RELATIONS FOR THERE TO BE SOME IMPROVEMENT AND
WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE THAT? >> OF COURSE I WOULD.
I MEAN, WE'RE THE TWO MOST POWERFUL COUNTRIES IN THE WORLD
MILITARILY. WE HAVE TO HAVE THE BASIS OF A
STABLE RELATIONSHIP. YOU WANT TO SEE EFFECTIVE
COMMUNICATIONS BETWEEN THE TWO. AND, DAVID, I'D SAY THAT WE
CONTINUE TO BASICALLY AGREE WITH THE RUSSIANS ON THE IRAN NUCLEAR
DEAL. THERE'S SOME DIFFERENCES ON
NORTH KOREA THAT HAVE OPENED UP, BUT I THINK THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP
COULD PROBABLY CLOSE THEM WITH PUTIN.
AND, DAVID, YOU'VE BEEN REPORTING BRILLIANTLY ABOUT
SYRIA. I THINK THERE ARE A LOT OF LAND
MINES FOR US WITH WORKING WITH THE SYRIANS SSYRIANS.
I THINK WE SHOULD BRING THAT WAR TO A CLOSE TO HELP THE 12
MILLION HOMELESS THERE. YOU WOULD HAVE A VIEW ON THAT.
BUT I THINK THE PRESIDENT SHOULD EXPLORE THAT.
WE DON'T WANT TO BE ALIGNED WITH HZBOLLAH AND SYRIAN AND RUSSIA.
THAT IS IN THE INTEREST OF THE UNITED STATES.
THIS IS NOT ALL BAD NEWS HERE. WE HAVE TO LOOK FOR

Donald Trump Needs To Call For Sanctions, Says Former Ambassador | Morning Joe | MSNBC

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