Elizabeth Holtzman: “End Of His Presidency” If Donald Trump Ousts Robert Mueller

AND THEYE EVEN WILLING TO PAY CHRISFER STEEL, THE FORMER
TELLS OFFICER. THAT DIDN'T WORK OUT.
BUT TAKING THE DOSSIER VERY SERIOUSLY, ALEX.
>> LET'S GET NOW TO THE QUESTIONS BEING RAISED ABOUT THE
SCOPE OF THE INQUIRY. CHIEF AMONG THEM HOW FAR CAN THE
PRESIDENT GO TO SHIELD HIMSELF AND HIS FAMILY FROM ANY POSSIBLE
FALL OUT? JOINING ME THE PERSON WHO HELPED
DRAFT THE ARTICLES OF IMPEACHMENT FOR PRESIDENT NIXON.
THANK YOU FOR JOINING ME, MA'AM. LET'S GET RIGHT TO THE REACTION
THAT SENATOR GRAHAM TOLD REPORTERS ABOUT WHAT WOULD
HAPPEN IF THE PRESIDENT TRIED TO FIRE BOB MUELLER.
>> ANY EFFORT TO GO AFTER MUELLER COULD BE THE BEGINNING
OF THE END OF THE TRUMP PRESIDENCY UNLESS MUELLER DID
SOMETHING WRONG. >> IF YOU'RE THE PRESIDENT, IS
IT MORE EFFECTIVE TO UNDERMINE MUELLER'S CREDIBILITY OR DO YOU
JUST FIRE HIM OUTRIGHT AND RISK ALL THE BLOW BACK?
>> WELL, THERE'S SOME SERIOUS QUESTIONS ABOUT FIRING MUELLER.
I AGREE WITH SENATOR GRAHAM. WHEN PRESIDENT NIXON O ORDERED E
FIRING OF THE SPECIAL PROSECUTOR WHO WAS INVESTIGATING WATERGATE
AND WAS LOOKING INTO HIS CONDUCT, THAT LED TO THE
BEGINNING OF THE DOWNFALL OF RICHARD NIXON.
THAT'S WHAT TRIGGERED IMPEACHMENT PROCEEDINGS, VAST
PUBLIC OUT RAGE. AMERICAN PEOPLE SAID WE'RE NOT A
REPUBLIC. I THINK THAT COULD HAPPEN AGAIN.
THE SAME THING COULD HAPPEN AND TRIGGER THE BEGINNING OF THE
END. MUELLER IS A HIGHLY RESPECTED
LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL, PROBABLY THE MOST RESPECTED IN
THIS COUNTRY. REPUBLICANS AS WELL AS DEMOCRATS
HAVE SAID VERY FINE THINGS ABOUT HIM.
SO FOR THE PRESIDENT TO GO AFTER HIM PERSONALLY WOULD BE VERY BAD
FOR THE PRESIDENT. ON TOP OF THAT, IF THERE'S NO
GOOD CAUSE, THEN MUELLER MAY HAVE A LAWSUIT TO STAY ON.
PRESIDENT TRUMP FIRES HIM, BUT MUELLER STAYS ON AND WE HAVE A
LAWSUIT FOR SEVERAL YEARS. THAT'S NOT A GOOD IDEA FOR MR.
TRUMP. THE OTHER THING THAT I THINK
HE'S DOING IS HE'S TRYING TO GET SESSIONS TO FIRE -- SESSIONS TO
REMOVE HIMSELF SO HE CAN REPLACE HIMSELF SO HE CAN HAVE HIM
MUELLER. IF THAT HAPPENS, I THINK ALL
BETS ARE OFF. I THINK IT'S THE END OF HIS
PRESIDENCY. >> WOW, TALK ABOUT A LEAD NEWS
STORY FOR SOME TIME TO COME. >> IN VIEW OF THE FACT THAT MR.
MUELLER INTERVIEW FOR MR. COMEY'S JOB, ON THAT BASIS ALONE
SHE SHOULD STEP DOWN. >> MUELLER IS COMPROMISED
BECAUSE HE WANTED TO BE -- >> BECAUSE HE INTERVIEWED WITH
THE PRESIDENT FOR COMEY'S JOB AFTER HE STEPPED DOWN.
>> SO? >> THAT'S A VERY CLEAR CONFLICT.
>> HOW HAS THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT HISTORICALLY
DETERMINED CONFLICTS OF INTEREST?
WOULD THIS JOB INTERVIEW THAT'S BEING DISCUSSED THERE, WOULD
THIS FALL IN LINE WITH PAST
EXAMPLES? >> WELL, I'M NOT AN EXPERT ON
THIS SUBJECT. BUT THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT
ITSELF HAS A VERY CAREFUL AND STRICT SCREENING PROCESS.
AND I'M SURE THIS WAS PRESENTED TO THEM.
AND IT IT'S NOT, IT SHOULD BE. BUT YOEFBL THAT'S A CONFLICT OF
INTEREST. CLEARLY MUELLER PREFERRED
WORKING FOR THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT THAN TAKING A JOB
FROM TRUMP HIMSELF. SO I DON'T THINK THAT THIS
PRESENTS ANY CONFLICT AT INTEREST AT ALL.
BUT IT COULD HAVE SHOULD HAVE BEEN REVIEWED.
NO QUESTION ABOUT THAT. >> I WANT TO GET TO THE ISSUE OF
PARDONS HERE. LET'S ASSUME THE PRESIDENT CAN
PARDON HIMSELF. BUT IF THE PRESIDENT PARDONS
HIMSELF HIS FAMILY MEMBERS FROM ALL MATTERS RELATED TO THE
RUSSIAN INVESTIGATION, BILL WILL THAT AUTOMATICALLY END THE
RUSSIAN PROBE AND -- >> WAIT A MINUTE, I'M NOT GOING
TO AGREE WITH YOUR ASSUMPTION. >> IT'S A BIG IF.
>> I DON'T THINK THERE'S AN IF THERE.
THE PRESIDENT CANNOT PARDON HIMSELF.
AND IF HE PARDONS HIMSELF,F, YOU'LL SEE THE END OF HIS
PRESIDENCY. SAME AS MUELLER THERE.
BUT HE DOES THAT FOR THE PURPOSE OF OBSTRUCTING MUELLER'S
INVESTIGATION, THEN WHAT THAT COULD HAPPEN IS THAT COULD BE
GROUNDS FOR PROSECUTION, OBSTRUCTION ORPHJUSTICE AND
GROUNDS FOR IMPEACHMENTMISM EVEN THOUGH MAY HAVE THE POWER TO DO
THAT, IF HE DOES IT FOR THE WRONG REASONS HE COULD BE
PROSECUTED OR IMPEACHED. >> AND YOU'RE WRITING THAT THE
MAJOR ARGUMENT TO SELF-PARDON GOES ALL THE WAY TO OUR FOUNDING
FOUNDERS. SO YOU'RE SAYING THIS IS A LEGAL
PRINCIPLE. HOW COULD COURTS WEIGH THIS IDEA
AGAINST WHAT THE CONSTITUTION ACTUALLY SAYS?
>> WELL, THE CONSTITUTION DOESN'T SAY A PRESIDENT HAS THE
POWER TO PARDON HIMSELF OR HERSELF SOMEDAY.
WHAT THE CONSTITUTION -- THE CONSTITUTION IS SILENT ON THIS
FOR VERY GOOD REASON. ACTUALLY THE ISSUE IN A WAY WAS
DEBATED AT THE CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION WHERE SOMEBODY TRIED
TO SAY, WELL, LET'S STOP THE PRESIDENT FROM HAVING THE POWER
TO PARDON THE CASE OF TREASON BECAUSE HE COULD ENGAGE IN A
CONSPIRACY OVER TREASON AND PARDON THE CONSPIRATORS AND
HIMSELF. AND THE OPPONENTS OF THAT SAID
THE PRESIDENT CAN BE PROSECUTED. DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT.
THEY WOULDN'T HAVE SAID THAT IF THEY HAD BEEN A SELF-PARDONING
POWER. SO IT'S ACTUALLY A DEBATE OVER
THE PARDONING POWER ITSELF WE SEE THE FRAMEWORK OF THE
CONSTITUTION SAYING DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT, THE PRESIDENT CAN'T
PARDON HIMSELF. THEY DON'T USE THOSE SAME WORDS,
BUT THAT'S THE CONCEPT INVOLVED THERE.
I THINK THE FACT THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP IS TALKING ABOUT THAT,
COULD BE A KIND OF OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE BECAUSE IT COULD BE
SENDING A SIGNAL TO VARIOUS CONSPIRATORS IF THERE ARE ANY,
TO KEEP THEIR MOUTHS SHUT. REMEMBER IN WATERGATE -- LET'S
GO BACK TO WATERGATE, PRESIDENT NIXON ALSO AUTHORIZED
PRESIDENTIAL PARDONS FOR THE WATERGATE BURGLARS TO KEEP

Elizabeth Holtzman: “End Of His Presidency” If Donald Trump Ousts Robert Mueller | MSNBC

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