'He Was Born Angry': New Book Delves Into Bannon | Morning Joe

WASHINGTON D.C., AND THE ARCHITECT OF THIS, PRESIDENT
STEVE BANNON. JOSH, LET'S BRING YOU IN.
YOU'VE WRITTEN, WOW, WHAT A BOOK, ON PRESIDENT STEVE BANNON,
OR MR. 36% AS I LIKE TO CALL HIM.
PRETTY SHOCKING DETAILS. LOOK AT THE HEALTH CARE DEBATE
TO SEE, IN MY OPINION, HOW LITTLE STEVE BANNON KNOWS ABOUT
WASHINGTON D.C. COMING UP TO THE HILL, AND
ACTUALLY THREATENING HOUSE MEMBERS IF THEY DIDN'T VOTE FOR
THE HOUSE BILL. HE'S -- WHERE DOES HE COME FROM,
FIRST OF ALL? WHAT IS THE GENESIS OF HIS
PHILOSOPHICAL BELIEF AND HOW MUCH DOES HE REALLY KNOW ABOUT
MAKING WASHINGTON D.C. RUN? >> WELL, I THINK AS I SAY IN THE
BOOK, BANNON IS GOOD AT A COUPLE OF THINGS, MESSAGING,
CAMPAIGNING, AND GOOD AT HELPING TRUMP CONNECT TO THE ANXIETIES
OF AMERICAN VOTERS. WE SAW IT IN THE PRIMARIES.
WE SAW IT IN THE GENERAL ELECTORATE.
THE ONE PROBLEM, THE FUNDAMENTAL PROBLEM THAT STEVE BANNON, JARED
KUSHNER, THAT THEY ALL HAVE IS THEY HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO
EXPERIENCE IN WASHINGTON. THEY THINK IT'S ABOUT DOMINANCE,
THAT YOU CAN INTIMIDATE PEOPLE INTO PASSING BILLS.
YOU SAW THAT WITH TRUMP'S APPROACH TO THE HOUSE BILL.
IN THIS CASE MITCH McCONNELL SAID, HANG BACK, I DON'T WANT
YOU INVOLVED. NOW THAT HASN'T WORKED OUT
EITHER. THE PROBLEM IS THERE ISN'T
ANYBODY UP THERE WITH LEGISLATIVE EXPERIENCE THAT
KNOWS HOW TO PASS A BILL, AND AS I SAY IN THE BOOK, TRUMP RAN ON
A MESSAGE THAT WAS IN DIRECT OPPOSITION TO WHAT PEOPLE LIKE
MITCH McCONNELL AND PAUL RIEB WANTED TO DO.
HE RAN ON A POPULIST ECONOMIC MESSAGE THAT ADDRESSED THE NEEDS
OF WORKING CLASS PEOPLE. PASSING THIS HEALTH CARE BILL
WOULD TAKE AWAY MEDICAID FOR ALL SORTS OF WORKING POOR.
IT DOESN'T JIBE WITH TRUMP'S MESSAGE AS A CANDIDATE.
WE'RE SEEING HOW IT'S GOING TO FALL APART.
>> THAT'S WHAT I DON'T UNDERSTAND, AND I DIDN'T
UNDERSTAND IT IN JANUARY WHEN HE STARTED ANNOUNCING ALL HIS
CABINET MEMBERS. HE HAD STEVE BANNON THAT HAD
THIS POPULIST MESSAGE THAT HAS BEEN SUCCESSFUL IN ELECTING
CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICANS IN DEMOCRATIC-LEANING DISTRICTS AND
DEMOCRATIC-LEANING STATES. BUT YOU START LOOKING AT THE
PEOPLE THAT HE PUT AT HHS. LOOK AT THE PEOPLE THAT HE PUT
AT THE EPA, AND LOOK AT THE PEOPLE THAT HE PUT ACROSS
GOVERNMENT AT COMMERCE. I MEAN, HE PUT HARD RIGHT
CONSERVATIVE SMALL GOVERNMENT -- ALMOST RIGID IDEOLOGICALLY RIGID
PEOPLE THERE THAT WOULD NEVER WIN A RACE IN WISCONSIN, WOULD
NEVER WIN A RACE IN PENNSYLVANIA, OHIO, OR MICHIGAN.
THERE'S SUCH A DISCONNECT BETWEEN WHAT STEVE BANNON
PROMISED AND WHAT DONALD TRUMP IS DELIVERING, THAT EVEN THAT
PART OF THE EQUATION IS NOT WORKING OUT.
>> NO. I THINK THAT'S RIGHT.
SO THERE ARE TWO PROBLEMS HERE. ONE, TRUMP AT HEART IS NOT A
NATIONALIST. HE'S AN OPPORTUNIST.
HE WANTS TO DO WHATEVER IS GOING TO MAKE HIM LOOK GOOD ON CABLE
TV IN THE MOMENT. IF THAT'S NATIONALISM, AS IT WAS
IN THE CAMPAIGN, THAT'S WHAT HE'LL DO, BUT WE GOT INTO
OFFICE, FILLED HIS STAFF WITH FOLKS FROM GOLDMAN SACHS.
NO OFFENSE, STEVE RATTNER. >> I NEVER WORKED AT GOLDMAN
SACHS? >> DIDN'T YOU?
>> NO. >> MY BAD.
THAT CREATES A PROBLEM WHEN YOU RUN AGAINST THESE KIND OF WHAT
BANNON CALL GLOBALIST ENTITIES. THE OTHER PROBLEM WAS FOR ALL
THE PRESIDENT BANNON TALK, BANNON EITHER DIDN'T HAVE OR WAS
AFRAID TO LEVERAGE THE INFLUENCE OVER TRUMP TO SAY DON'T GO DOWN
THIS PATH. DON'T PASS PAUL RYAN'S HEALTH
CARE BILL. IT TAKES AWAY BENEFITS FROM YOUR
BASE. LET'S DO SOMETHING ELSE.
FOR WHATEVER REASON, HE COULDN'T MAKE THAT HAPPEN AND NOW THE
ADMINISTRATION IS IN REAL
TROUBLE. >> JOSH, THIS IS THE MOST
EXTENSIVE PORTRAIT OF STEVE BANNON, YOUR BOOK, "DEVIL'S
BARGAIN". GIVEN HIS BACKGROUND, WHAT HE'S
DONE WITH HIS LIFE, HE'S HAD A LOT OF SUCCESS, A LOT OF
OPPORTUNITY, AND YET, EVERYTHING HE SEEMS TO SPEAK TO, OR ABOUT,
OR TRY TO INFLUENCE PEOPLE WITH, IS RESENTMENT.
WHERE DOES THIS RESENTMENT COME FROM IN?
>> TALKING TO PEOPLE ALL THE WAY BACK IN HIGH SCHOOL, BANNON HAS
BEEN A GUY WITH A CHIP ON HIS SHOULDER.
HE WAS A BRAWLER. VERY MUCH IN THE MOLD OF KIND OF
A DONALD TRUMP AS A CANDIDATE. THAT'S JUST WHO HE'S BEEN.
AND EVEN THOUGH HE WENT TO HARVARD BUSINESS SCHOOL AND WENT
TO GOLDMAN SACHS AND WOUND UP IN HOLLYWOOD, THAT'S WHAT HE WAS
ALL ABOUT, AND BENEATH THE SURFACE, HE HAD THIS KIND OF
ANGRY HARD RIGHT CONSERVATISM THAT CAME OUT ONCE HE MOVED INTO
THE WORLD OF CONSERVATIVE MOVIE MAKING, BREITBART NEWS, OF THE
TEA PARTY. IT'S A MESSAGE THAT HAD A LOT OF
POWER. IT GOT DONALD TRUMP ELECTED.
>> BUT DO WE KNOW ANYTHING MORE ABOUT THE BASIS OF THE
RESENTMENT? DID HE GET KICKED OFF A LITTLE
LEAGUE TEAM? DID A GIRL SAY NO?
SOMEONE STEAL HIS LUNCH? >> THIS IS ALWAYS WHO THE GUY
HAS BEEN. HE WAS BORN ANGRY.
HE WAS BORN FIGHTING, AND SO MAYBE IT'S NOT A COINCIDENCE
THAT HE WOUND UP IN POLITICS. >> JOSH, YOU'VE ALLUDED SEVERAL
TIMES TO THE DISCONNECT BETWEEN BANNON'S IDEOLOGY AND SOME OF
THE POLICIES BEING PURSUED. I COULD MAKE THE ARGUMENT
THERE'S NOTHING DONALD TRUMP HAS PROPOSED THAT WOULD MAKE THE 36%
BETTER OFF AND A LOT THAT WOULD MAKE THEM WORSE OFF, WHETHER
IT'S THE TAX CUTS OR THE HEALTH CARE.
THE QUESTION IS HOW DOES THE MOVIE END?
DOES THE 36% AT SOME POINT WAKE UP AND SAY WHAT ARE THESE GUYS
DOING TO ME, OR DOES BANNON SOMEHOW GET POLICIES TO HELP THE
PEOPLE SUFFERING? >> I DON'T KNOW THAT THEY DO.
IN THE ONE CASE THE NATIONALISTS IN THE WHITE HOUSE WOULD MAKE
THAT THEY HAVE DELIVERED IS THEY ARE DEPORTING IMMIGRANTS.
THEY ARE SHUTTING DOWN IMMIGRATION.
THEY ARE TRYING TO KEEP OUT THE INFLUX OF LOW-WAGE WORKERS.
THEY CLAIM A TIGHTER WAGE MARKET WILL BENEFIT THE WORKERS.
IT'S NOT A LOT TO BUILD A REELECTION CAMPAIGN ON.
THE OTHER QUESTION I HAVE, I'D EXPECTED THEM TO ABANDON HIM
QUICKLY WHEN IT WAS CLEAR HE WASN'T DELIVERING.
FOR THE MOST PART, THEY HAVEN'T. WE SAW A WASHINGTON POST POLL
YESTERDAY THAT SAID ONLY 9% OF REPUBLICAN VOTERS ARE BOTHERED.
FOR BETTER OR WORSE, TRUMP HAS HAD A CULT LEADER EFFECT ON THE
BASE. THEY ARE NOT SITTING THERE AND
SIFTING WHETHER OR NOT THEY'RE GETTING TANGIBLE BENEFITS.
THEY'RE GOING WITH TRUMP MAYBE BECAUSE THEY DISLIKE PEOPLE IN
WASHINGTON. FOR WHATEVER REASON, THE SUPPORT
STRUCTURE HASN'T BROKEN. >> JOSH, WHY DIDN'T THAT BAS BA
MARCH ON WASHINGTON AND DEMAND THAT THE SENATE PASS REPEAL AND
REPLACE, THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT?
>> BECAUSE I THINK THAT WAS MITCH McCONNELL AND PAUL RYAN
AND THE GOP ESTABLISHMENT'S FIXATION.
IT IS NOT THE FIXATION OF ORDINARY WORKING CLASS VOTERS
THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY. TRUMP'S GENIUS AS A CANDIDATE
WAS TO RECOGNIZE, I THINK, AND TO CARRY OUT A KIND OF POLITICAL
ARBITRAGE BETWEEN WHAT THE REPUBLICAN LEADERS STOOD FOR,
HAWKISH FOREIGN POLICY AND FREE TRADE, AND THE KINDS OF POLICIES
THAT WOULD BENEFIT THE ACTUAL BASE OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.
ELDERLY FOLKS, RURAL FOLKS, WORKING CLASS FOLKS, TRUMP FROM
THE CAMPAIGN AND IN THE BOOK SAYS LOOK, I AM NOT GOING TO CUT
YOUR BENEFITS. HE TELLS PAUL RYAN, I THINK
YOU'RE STUPID TO PROMISE TO CUT SOCIAL SECURITY WHEN THE
DEMOCRATS ARE SAYING NOT ONLY WILL WE NOT CUT SOCIAL SECURITY.
WE'RE GOING TO GIVE YOU MORE. ON SOME LEVEL TRUMP RECOGNIZED
THE PROBLEM WITH THE REPUBLICAN MESSAGE, BUT HE'S NOT BEEN ABLE
TO DELIVER ANYTHING TO SATISFY THE VOTERS.
>> JOSH, LET ME GO BACK TO THE ISSUE THAT REALLY DOES SEEM TO
UNITE THE 36%, OR THE 40%, WHEREVER DONALD TRUMP SUPPORTERS
ARE, AND YOU MENTIONED IT. IT IS AT THE END OF THE DAY,
IT'S IMMIGRATION. IT'S THE WALL.
I'M GOING TO BUILD THAT WALL WAS THE BIG APPLAUSE LINE.
IT WAS THAT HE WAS GOING TO DO SOMETHING THAT DEMOCRATS HAVE
TAILED MISERABLY IN DOING, AND THAT IS KEEPING OUT A LOW WAGE
ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS THAT ACTUALLY DROVE DOWN THE PAID FOR WORKING
CLASS AMERICANS. THAT'S THE PROMISE AT THE END OF
THE DAY THAT DONALD TRUMP MADE. IT WASN'T REALLY PRIMARILY ABOUT
HEALTH CARE. IT WASN'T ABOUT TAX CUTS.
I'VE ALWAYS GOT THE FEELING THEIR ATTITUDE WAS YEAH, GIVE
THE RICH WHATEVER YOU WANT TO GIVE THE RICH.
WE JUST WANT OUR JOBS BACK, AND TO GET OUR JOBS BACK, YOU NEED
TO BUILD THE WALL. HOW MUCH OF THAT WENT INTO STEVE
BANNON'S CALCULUS IN PUTTING THIS CAMPAIGN TOGETHER AND THIS
CAMPAIGN MESSAGE TOGETHER. >> BANNON WASN'T THE ORIGINATOR
OF THE WALL, BUT I THINK HE WAS THE GUY THAT REALLY INJECTED THE
IDEA IN TRUMP'S MIND THAT ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION CAN BE A
POWERFUL POLITICAL FORCE IN THE CONSERVATIVE GRASS ROOTS.
WE FORGET THIS NOW, BUT TRUMP AS AN ENTERTAINER IN THE MID 2000S
WAS ACTUALLY MORE POPULAR WITH HISPANIC AND BLACK VOTERS THAN
HE WAS WITH WHITE VOTERS. HE COULD HAVE RUN A DIFFERENT
KIND OF BIG TENT GOP AUTOPSY PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN.
THAT WAS THE MOST FASCINATING PART OF MY RESEARCH WAS SEEING
THE PROFILE TRUMP HAD. THEN HE CONNECTS WITH PEOPLE
LIKE DAVID BOSSY, DAVE BANNON, STEVEN MILLER IN THE WHITE HOUSE
AND SUDDENLY BECOMES RADICALIZED ON THE ISSUE OF ILLEGAL
IMMIGRATION. THAT MORE THAN ANY OTHER ISSUE I
THINK IS WHAT CARRIED INTO NOMINATION.
>> YEAH. I THINK IT CARRIED HIM TO THE
NOMINATION. I THINK IT'S WHAT CONTINUES TO
CARRY HIM TOWARD AND WHY HE STILL HAS SUPPORT FROM A LOT OF
PEOPLE. THANK YOU SO MUCH, JOSH.
"DEVIL'S BARGAIN" LOOKED LIKE A GREAT BOOK.
STEVE RATTNER, WILLIE AND I HAVE BEEN TRYING TO GET JOBS AT
GOLDMAN SACHS FOR A LONG TITIME. CAN YOU GIVE US A GOOD WORD?
>> I KNOW SOME PEOPLE THERE. I'LL GIVE YOU A HELPING HAND.
>> WHAT ARE YOU KIND OF THINKING YOU'D WANT TO DO?
>> I DON'T CARE. I'M KIND OF OPEN.
WHATEVER

'He Was Born Angry': New Book Delves Into Bannon | Morning Joe | MSNBC

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