REALLY APPRECIATE IT. >> THANK YOU, LAWRENCE.
>>> WELL, TONIGHT WE ARE GOING TO BEGIN WITH THIS BREAKING NEWS
FROM "THE NEW YORK TIMES" THAT YOU'VE HEARD REPORTED BY RACHEL
MADDOW. HERE IS THE FIR FIRST PARAGRAPH
THAT STORY. BEFORE ARRANGING A MEETING WITH
A KREMLIN-CONNECTED RUSSIAN LAWYER HE BELIEVED WOULD OFFER
HIM COMPROMISING INFORMATION ABOUT HILLARY CLINTON, DONALD
TRUMP JR. WAS INFORMED IN AN E-MAIL THAT THE MATERIAL WAS
PART OF A RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT EFFORT TO AID HIS FATHER'S
CANDIDACY ACCORDING TO THREE PEOPLE WITH KNOWLEDGE OF THE
E-MAIL. THE E-MAIL TO THE YOUNGER
MR. TRUMP WAS SENT BY ROB GOLDSTONE, A PUBLICIST AND
FORMER BRITISH TABLOID REPORTER WHO HELPED BROKER THE JUNE 2016
MEETING. JOINING US NOW, JILL WINE-BANKS,
FORMER WATERGATE PROSECUTOR, RON CLAIM, FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF.
HE'S ALSO A FORMER CHIEF COUNSEL TO THE SENATE JUDICIARY
COMMITTEE, AND HE WAS CHIEF OF STAFF TO ATTORNEY GENERAL JANET
RENO. ALSO WITH US, BILL BROWDER, THE
CEO OF HERM TAJ CAPITAL MANAGEMENT AND THE AUTHOR OF
"RED NOTICE." HE ACTUALLY KNOWS THE RUSSIAN
LAWYER WHO MET WITH DONALD TRUMP JR. IN THIS MEETING.
RON CLAIN, I WANT TO GO FIRST OF ALL TO YOU WITH THIS LATEST
DEVELOPMENT IN THE SEQUENCE OF STORIES WE'VE HAD THIS WEEKEND.
WHAT DOES THIS ADD TO THE STORY AS IT IS NOW TO KNOW THAT
THERE'S AN E-MAIL THAT DONALD TRUMP JR. RECEIVED SAYING THAT
THIS WAS ABOUT THE RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT TRYING TO HELP HIS
FATHER WIN THE ELECTION? >> LAWRENCE, YOU KNOW, THE LOU
THUDDING NOISE YOUR VIEWERS HEAR BEHIND ME IS THE SOUND AFTER SIX
MONTHS OF A GIANT SHOE FINALLY DROPPING IN THIS INVESTIGATION.
SIX MONTHS AGO, THE VICE PRESIDENT TOLD US THAT NO ONE ON
THEIR CAMPAIGN HAD MET WITH THE RUSSIANS.
THEN ONE BY ONE, WE'VE LEARNED ABOUT THESE MEETINGS.
BUT ALL ALONG UNTIL NOW, THEY INSISTED THE MEETINGS WERE ABOUT
POLICY OR GETTING TO KNOW YOU. NOW WE FINALLY KNOW THERE WERE
MEETINGS BETWEEN SENIOR TRUMP OFFICIALS, DONALD TRUMP JR. AND,
OF COURSE, JARED KUSHNER, PAUL MANAFORT, ARE RUSSIAN LIAISONS,
TO TALK ABOUT HOW THE RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT COULD AID THE TRUMP
CAMPAIGN. THAT IS A GIANT TURN IN THIS
UNFOLDING STORY. >> JILL, WE HAVE SOMEONE WHO
DONALD TRUMP JR. SAYS HE MET WHEN THE TRUMPS WENT TO RUSSIA
WITH THEIR BEAUTY PAGEANT. THAT PERSON, WHO IS NOT A
RUSSIAN CITIZEN, THIS GOLDSTONE GUY, SENDS AN E-MAIL SAYING, IT
WOULD BE GOOD IF YOU MET WITH THIS RUSSIAN LAWYER.
MIGHT BE ABLE TO HELP WITH THE CAMPAIGN.
NOW THAT WE HAVE THE ELEMENT IN THE E-MAIL OF -- AND THIS WILL
BE INFORMATION FROM THE RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN
LEGALLY? >> THIS IS AN ASTOUNDING THING.
WE HAVE, FOR SURE, MORE EVIDENCE FOR MR. R MR. MUELLER TO LOOK A
GET THE DETAILS OF. BUT IT IS COLLUSION WITH A
FOREIGN ADVERSARY IF THEY WERE WORKING TOGETHER TO GET THE
INFORMATION FROM THE RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT, AND THAT'S WHAT THIS
LOOKS LIKE. IT LOOKS LIKE CLEAR PROOF OF
COLLUSION. >> BILL BROWDER, YOU KNOW
NATALIA VESELNITSKAYA, THE LAWYER WHO WAS IN THIS MEETING,
THE RUSSIAN LAWYER. APPARENTLY DONALD TRUMP CHANGED
HIS STORY OVER THE WEEKEND. FIRST HE SAID THE MEETING HAD
NOTHING TO DO WITH CAMPAIGN ISSUES.
IT WAS ALL ABOUT ADOPTION AND, YOU KNOW, REPAIRING THE RULES
THAT WOULD ALLOW ADOPTION OF RUSSIAN BABIES.
THEN THE NEXT DAY, HIS STATEMENT SAID, NO, IT WAS ABOUT GETTING
ACTUAL CAMPAIGN INFORMATION. THAT'S WHAT THE MEETING WAS
REALLY ABOUT. THEN SHE TURNED IT INTO A
MEETING ABOUT ADOPTION, WHICH DISAPPOINTED DONALD TRUMP JR.
NOW TONIGHT, WE HAVE THIS LATEST ELEMENT OF THE INFORMATION.
WHAT DO WE KNOW ABOUT WHO DONALD TRUMP JR. AND JARED KUSHNER AND
PAUL MANAFORT WERE MEETING WITH THAT DAY?
>> FIRST OF ALL, THEY WERE MEETING WITH A PERSON WHO WAS
REPRESENTING THE RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT, NOT A PERSON WHO WAS
ACTING IN A PERSONAL CAPACITY. THEY WERE MEETING WITH A PERSON
FROM THE RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT WHO HAD A SPECIFIC AGENDA, WHICH WAS
TO REPEAL SANCTIONS, WHAT'S CALLED MAGNITSKY SANCTIONS
AGAINST HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATORS FROM RUSSIA, WHICH IS SOMETHING
VERY IMPORTANT TO VLADIMIR PUTIN.
AND SHE WAS COMING ARMED WITH SOMETHING -- WITH A QUID PRO
QUO. THE RUSSIANS UNDERSTAND IF THEY
WANT SOMETHING FROM THE AMERICANS, IF THEY WANT
SOMETHING FROM DONALD TRUMP, THEY HAVE TO OFFER SOMETHING IN
RETURN. NOW, I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHAT
SHE WAS OFFERING, BUT I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT SHE WAS ASKING FOR,
WHICH WAS TO REPEAL SANCTIONS AGAINST RUSSIAN TORTURERS AND
MURDERERS, WHICH IS SOMETHING THAT'S VERY SENSITIVE TO
VLADIMIR PUTIN. >> BILL, TAKE A MINUTE AND TELL
US HOW THESE SANCTIONS WERE PUT IN PLACE AND WHY THEY WERE PUT
IN PLACE AND WHOSE NAME IS ON THOSE SANCTIONS, HOW THAT
HAPPENED. >> SO THE SANCTIONS ARE CALLED
THE MAGNITSKY ACT. THE MAGNITSKY ACT IS A PIECE OF
LEGISLATION NAMED AFTER MY LAWYER, SERGEI MAGNITSKY.
SERGEI MAGNITSKY WAS AN ANTI-CORRUPTION IN MOSCOW,
UNCOVERED A MASSIVE $230 MILLION RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT CORRUPTION
SKAEM.
HE EXPOSED. IT HE WAS ARRESTED, TORTURED IN
PRISON AND KILLED AT THE AGE OF 37, SEVEN YEARS AGO.
AND I'VE GONE ON A MISSION TO WASHINGTON TO GET A PIECE OF
LEGISLATION IN PLACE, WHICH WAS PASSED, CALLED THE MAGNITSKY
ACT, WHICH IMPOSES VISA SANCTIONS AND ASSET FREEZES ON
RUSSIAN HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATORS. THIS IS SOMETHING THAT VERY MUCH
UPSETS VLADIMIR PUTIN. >> RON CLAIN, THE SOURCING FOR
"THE NEW YORK TIMES" ORIGINAL ARTICLE WAS THREE ADVISERS TO
THE WHITE HOUSE BRIEFED ON THE MEETING WITH TWO OTHERS WITH
KNOWLEDGE OF IT. ADVISERS TO THE WHITE HOUSE, SO
THAT INDICATES TO ME THEY ARE PROBABLY PEOPLE WORKING OUTSIDE
OF THE WHITE HOUSE. BUT THIS IS A TRUMP-FRIENDLY
GROUP OF SOURCES FOR "THE NEW YORK TIMES" ARTICLE.
WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THAT? >> WELL, I THINK IT'S HARD TO
KNOW WHAT TO MAKE OF THAT, LAWRENCE.
I THINK THAT TONIGHT, IN FACT, THE WHITE HOUSE IS KIND OF
FLIPPING -- DOING BACK FLIPS ON THIS AND KUSHNER AND MANAFORT
ARE SAYING, HEY, NO BIG DEAL. WE DISCLOSED THIS THE UMPTEENth
TIME WE UPDATED OUR DISCLOSURE FORMS.
I THINK THEY'RE TRYING TO SPIN THIS THE BEST THEY CAN.
THE BOTTOM LINE IS UP UNTIL NOW THERE'S BEEN A QUESTION OF
WHETHER OR NOT THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN TRIED TO COLLUDE WITH
THE RUSSIANS. NOW WE KNOW THEY TRIED TO
COLLUDE. THE ONLY QUESTION IS WHETHER OR
NOT THEY GOT THE JOB DONE. THAT REALLY SIGNIFICANTLY
CHANGES THE DIRECTION OF THIS INVESTIGATION.
>> JILL, ONE OF THE THING THAT STRIKES ME ABOUT THE SOURCING ON
THIS IS THAT BECAUSE IT COMES FROM TRUMP-FRIENDLY SOURCES, ONE
OF THE THINGS YOU WANT TO ASK YOURSELF IS WHO IS THIS HELPING?
WHO IS THIS HELPING WITHIN THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION?
AND IT'S JARED KUSHNER IN THIS MEETING WHO ACTUALLY HAS SOME
CRIMINAL LIABILITY BECAUSE HE WAS SUPPOSED TO DISCLOSE THIS ON
HIS APPLICATION FOR SECURITY CLEARANCE.
HE DIDN'T, AND HE ONLY RECENTLY UPDATED THIS DISCLOSURE.
AND SO AS YOU READ DEEPLY IN "THE NEW YORK TIMES" ARTICLE,
YOU DISCOVER, OH, SO THE GOVERNMENT NOW DOES KNOW KNOW A
THIS MEETING. AND ALSO AS YOU READ EVEN MORE
DEEPLY THAN THAT, YOU DISCOVER THAT THE HOUSE COMMITTEE
INVESTIGATORS KNOW ABOUT THE MEETING.
THEREFORE, TRUMP ADMINISTRATION PEOPLE HAD TO KNOW.
THIS MEETING IS EVENTUALLY GOING TO COME OUT.
WHAT IS THE LEAST DAMAGING WAY FOR US TO BRING IT OUT?
WHAT'S THE LEAST DAMAGING TIME FOR US TO BRING IT OUT?
AND THAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN THE DECISION THEY MADE THIS WEEKEND.
>> I THINK THE LEAST DAMAGING TIME WOULD HAVE BEEN WHEN IT
FIRST HAPPENED. I THINK I WOULDN'T BE
PRESUMPTUOUS ENOUGH TO OFFER ADVICE TO THE PRESIDENT, BUT I
WOULD TO HIS LEGAL TEAM. ONE OF THE FIRST LESSONS YOU
LEARN AS A LAWYER AND CERTAINLY ONE WE LEARNED IN WATERGATE IS
STOP THE DRIP, DRIP, DRIP. GET EVERYTHING OUT THAT YOU KNOW
RIGHT AWAY. IT'S MUCH LESS DAMAGING IF YOU
ANNOUNCE IT THAN IF YOU WAIT UNTIL YOUR OPPONENTS ANNOUNCE
IT. AND THEY'RE NOT DOING THAT.
THERE ARE TOO MANY UNREPORTED MEETINGS THAT WE'VE ALREADY
LEARNED ABOUT, AND WE ONLY LEARN ABOUT THEM WHEN SOMEONE ELSE
FINDS OUT, USUALLY THE MEDIA. SO WE NEED TO GET IT DONE, AND
THEY NEED TO GET THE TRUTH OUT. AS VOTEVOTERS, WE NEED TO KNOW
INFORMATION. >> BILL BROWDER, GIVEN ALL OF
YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH RUSSIA AND WORKING THERE, WHAT DO YOU MAKE
OF THIS STORY, THE FULL PICTURE OF THIS STORY, AS YOU SEE IT
TONIGHT? >> WELL, WHAT I SEE IS THAT THE
RUSSIANS HAVE A BUNCH OF OBJECTIVES.
PUTIN HAS A BUNCH OF OBJECTIVES. AND HE'S BEEN TRYING TO ACHIEVE
THOSE OBJECTIVES. ONE OF THOSE OBJECTIVES IS ABOUT
SANCTIONS. I THINK IT'S VERY SIGNIFICANT
THAT A PERSON FROM RUSSIA CAME TO THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION
ASKING FOR SANCTIONS TO BE REPEALED.
HE HAS OTHER OBJECTIVES WHICH HAVE TO DO WITH AMERICAN NOT
SUPPORTING NATO, AMERICA NOT SUPPORTING UKRAINE, AND AMERICA
NOT SUPPORTING THE EUROPEAN UNION.
THESE ARE ALL PUTIN'S OBJECTIVES.
AND PUTIN IS WORKING VERY HARD ON THIS, AND IT'S EXTREMELY
WORRYING TO SEE ANY LAPSE THAT THE UNITED STATES WILL HAVE IN
TERMS OF ANY OF THESE OBJECTIVES, WHICH ARE ALL VERY
IMPORTANT TO KEEP IN PLACE, TO KEEP RUSSIA IN CHECK.
>> BILL, DO YOU EXPECT TO HEAR ANYTHING FROM THIS RUSSIAN
LAWYER? DO YOU THINK SHE WILL MAKE ANY
MORE PUBLIC STATEMENTS ABOUT THIS?
>> I'M SURE SHE WILL. I'M SURE SHE WILL.
I'VE BEEN DEALING WITH HER AS AN ADVERSARY FOR THE LAST THREE
YEARS. SHE'S VERY BRASH, VERY BOLD.
I DON'T THINK SHE'S EVER BEEN IN THE CENTER OF SUCH A STORM AS
THIS ONE, BUT I'M SURE SHE'LL COME OUT AND SAY SOMETHING WHICH
WILL BE COMPLETELY UNTRUE WHEN SHE DOES, AND IT WILL CONFUSE
SOME AND FIRM UP OTHERS' OPINION OF WHAT HAPPENED HERE.
BUT YOU SHOULD ABSOLUTELY EXPECT TO HEAR SOMETHING FROM HER.
>> DEEP IN "THE NEW YORK TIMES" REPORT THIS MORNING, IT SAYS,
MR. MANAFORT, THE FORMER CAMPAIGN CHAIRMAN, ALSO RECENTLY
DISCLOSED THE MEETING. AND DONALD TRUMP JR.'S ROLE IN
ORGANIZING IT TO CONGRESSIONAL INVESTIGATORS WHO HAD QUESTIONS
ABOUT HIS FOREIGN CONTACTS. ACCORDING TO PEOPLE FAMILIAR
WITH THE EVENTS. AND SO, RON, IT SEEMS TO ME THAT
THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION KNEW THIS WAS COMING OUT.
MANAFORT'S DISCLOSED IT. THE HOUSE INVESTIGATORS KNOW IT.
NOW IT'S ON JARED KUSHNER'S DISCLOSURE FORM FINALLY, AND IT
REPRESENTS A POSSIBLE CRIME IN JARED KUSHNER'S CASE BECAUSE HE
DID NOT PUT IT ON HIS ORIGINAL DISCLOSURE FORMS.
SO AT SOME POINT, THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION HAS THE DECISION,
DO WE WANT TO SEE THIS THING COME OUT IN THE MIDDLE OF A
HOUSE HEARING THAT JARED KUSHNER IS THE WITNESS AT, WHERE IT
LANDS AS A BOMBSHELL ON JARED KUSHNER, OR DO WE WANT IT TO
COME OUT BEFORE THAT AND MAYBE COME OUT WITH DONALD TRUMP JR.
BEING THE STAR OF THE ARTICLE BECAUSE DONALD TRUMP JR. DOESN'T
FACE THE SAME CRIMINAL LIABILITY AS JARED KUSHNER DOES.
>> YEAH. YOU KNOW, THEY'RE SHAPING UP FOR
A VERY INTERESTING THANKSGIVING DINNER IN THE TRUMP HOUSEHOLD.
I MEAN IT DOES FEEL TO ME, LAWRENCE, KIND OF LIKE YOU
IMPLIED, THAT PERHAPS THIS STORY WAS PUT OUT AND HUNG ON DONALD
TRUMP'S SON TO MOVE IT AWAY FROM DONALD TRUMP'S SON-IN-LAW, WHO
DEFINITELY HAS MORE LEGAL EXPOSURE, WHO IS RIGHT IN THE
HEART OF THE WHITE HOUSE, WHO'S IN THE MIDDLE OF ALL THESE
POLICY MATTERS, WHO PLAYED A ROLE IN FIRING DIRECTOR COMEY,
WHO SUPPOSEDLY IS ONE OF THE PEOPLE WHO ADVISED THE PRESIDENT
TO FIRE FIRE DIRECTOR COMEY, WH BEEN THREATENING YOUR COLLEAGUES
HERE AT MSNBC WITH BAD STORIES AND ALL THESE THINGS.
IT MAY WELL BE, AS INCREDIBLE AS THIS IS, THAT THIS WAS AN EFFORT
BY THE TRUMP WHITE HOUSE TO HANG THIS ON DONALD TRUMP JR. AND
MOVE IT AWAY FROM JARED KUSHNER. >> JILL, THE OTHER PART OF THIS
STORY THAT IS STILL UNFOLDING IS WHAT EXACTLY -- WHAT ARE THE
WORDS IN THAT E-MAIL THAT HAVE BEEN DESCRIBED TO "THE NEW YORK
TIMES"? "THE NEW YORK TIMES" ARTICLE
DOES NOT QUOTE THE E-MAIL. IT SIMPLY SAYS THAT THERE IS AN
E-MAIL AND THAT IN THAT E-MAIL, IT SAYS THAT THE MATERIAL WAS
PART OF A RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT EFFORT, THAT THAT BECOMES CLEAR
IN THE E-MAIL. BUT WE HAVE NOT SEEN THAT
E-MAIL. WE DON'T KNOW THE WORDS OF THAT
E-MAIL YET. AND SO THERE IS MORE EVIDENCE TO
UNFOLD HERE. >> THERE IS, AND THAT'S THE JOB
OF MR. MUELLER AND HIS TEAM. AND I TRUST THAT THEY WILL START
INTERVIEWING ALL THE RIGHT PEOPLE.
THEY WILL OBTAIN THAT MEMO, AND THEN THEY WILL KNOW WHAT TO DO
WITH IT. IT'S ONLY SPECULATION RIGHT NOW
ALTHOUGH, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN ONLY HAVE SO MUCH SMOKE BEFORE YOU
HAVE TO ADMIT THAT THERE IS A FIRE.
AND I THINK WE'RE AT THE POINT WHERE THERE IS MUCH MORE THAN
JUST A SMOKY ROOM. >> BILL, GIVEN YOUR RUSSIAN
EXPERIENCE, IF THE RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT HAD INFORMATION THAT
THEY WANTED TO LET THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN KNOW ABOUT, DOES THIS
SOUND LIKE THE ROUTE THEY WOULD TAKE?
GO THROUGH PEOPLE WHO WORKED WITH TRUMP WHEN HE WAS THERE FOR
HIS BEAUTY PAGEANT, THEN GET TO THIS LAWYER, PUT THIS LAWYER IN
A ROOM IN TRUMP TOWER? >> YEAH.
WELL, I MEAN BASICALLY AT THE EARLY STAGES, THEY PROBABLY
DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO GET A HOLD OF TRUMP, AND THIS WAS, YOU KNOW,
THROUGH THIS BEAUTY CONTEST WAS A SMART WAY OF GETTING TO HIM.
I'M SURE THAT THE RUSSIANS DIDN'T JUST USE THIS CHANNEL IF
THEY WANTED TO APPROACH THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN.
I'M SURE THEY USED OTHER CHANNELS.
I'M SURE THAT AS TIME GOES ON, WE'LL LEARN ABOUT WHAT WAYS IN
WHICH THEY COMMUNICATED AND DIDN'T.
BUT WE KNOW FOR SURE THAT THIS PARTICULAR LAWYER WAS WORKING AS
AN AGENT OF THE RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT FOR A VERY IMPORTANT
PROJECT FOR VLADIMIR PUTIN, SO THIS WOULD MAKE SENSE AND FIT
RIGHT INTO THE WHOLE PICTURE OF THEM TRYING TO INFLUENCE U.S.
POLICY THROUGH DONALD TRUMP. >> LET'S LISTEN TO WHAT DONALD
TRUMP JR. SAID LAST YEAR AFTER -- WE NOW KNOW AFTER HE
GOT THIS E-MAIL. >> I CAN'T THINK OF BIGGER LIES,
BUT THAT EXACTLY GOES TO SHOW YOU WHAT THE DNC AND WHAT THE
CLINTON CAMP WILL DO. THEY WILL LIE AND DO ANYTHING TO
WIN. YOU HEAR IT WITH THE DNC WHERE
THEY'RE LEAKING E-MAILS ABOUT BERNIE SANDERS ANDRS AND HIS JE
HERITAGE TO BE ABLE TO TRY TO DESTROY HIM IN THE SOUTH.
IT'S A RIGGED SYSTEM. IT'S DISGUSTING, AND THE PEOPLE
SHOULD BE FED UP BECAUSE WHEN I HEARD IT, I CERTAINLY WAS.
>> RON, THAT WAS DONALD TRUMP JR. TALKING ABOUT HOW ALL THE
TALK ABOUT RUSSIAN HACKING WAS JUST A LIE.
HE WAS ALREADY IN POSSESSION OF AN E-MAIL ACCORDING TO "THE NEW
YORK TIMES" SAYING THE RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT WANTS TO HELP.
>> YEAH. LAWRENCE, I THINK YOU OUGHT TO
INVITE HIM ON YOUR SHOW TO COME ON TOMORROW NIGHT AND APOLOGIZE
TO ROBBY MOOK, WHO IN THAT INTERVIEW HE CALLED DESPICABLE
FOR SAYING THAT THERE WAS EVIDENCE THAT THE RUSSIANS WERE
WORKING WITH THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN, AND HE GAVE THAT INTERVIEW JUST
DAYS AFTER HE HAD THIS MEETING WHERE WE NOW KNOW HE WAS SENT AN
E-MAIL SAYING, HEY, WE WANT TO COME HELP.
WE'RE THE RUSSIANS. WE WANT TO COME HELP YOU BEAT
HILLARY CLINTON. SO CLEARLY HE WAS JUST TELLING A
BOLD FACED LIE, THROWING ACCUSATIONS, AND HE OWES
SECRETARY CLINTON, HER CAMPAIGN, EVERYONE INVOLVED A BIG APOLOGY
FOR THAT. >> BILL BROWDER, THANK YOU VERY
MUCH FOR JOINING US TONIGHT WITH YOUR UNIQUE PERSPECTIVE ON ALL