WaPo: Donald Trump May Replace AG Sessions During Senate Recess | The Last Word

NOT BE THE PRESIDENT, AND THE SOONER HE IS NOT, THE BETTER.
JOINING US NOW, JOHN HEILEMANN, NATIONAL AFFAIRS ANALYST FOR NBC
NEWS, MAX BOOT, SENIOR FELLOW FOR NATIONAL SECURITY STUDIES AT
THE COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS, ALSO MIEKE EOYANG, A
FORMER HOUSE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE STAFF MEMBER AND VICE
PRESIDENT FOR THE NATIONAL SECURITY PROGRAM AT THE THIRD
WAY. JOHN HEILEMANN, THE ATTACK THAT
WE'RE SEEING HERE IS, OF COURSE, UNPRECEDENTED.
AND SOMETHING ELSE THAT CONSERVATIVES ARE POINTING OUT
IS IT PROVES THAT DONALD TRUMP CARES NOTHING ABOUT POLICY
BECAUSE NO ONE IS A MORE FAITHFUL DELIVERER OF DONALD
TRUMP POLICY THAN JEFF SESSIONS IN THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT.
>> YES. I WAS GOING TO SAY THANK YOU FOR
HAVING ME ON TONIGHT GIVEN WE'RE DISCUSSING AN INSANELY STUPID
EXERCISE. I'M AN EXPERT ON THOSE MATTERS
SO I FEEL HIGHLY QUALIFIED TO COMMENT HERE.
IT'S THE CASE THAT'S EXTRAORDINARY.
IN THE SAME WAY THAT DONALD TRUMP FIRING JIM COMEY CAUSED
LIBERALS TO SUDDENLY RALLY AROUND JAMES COMEY, WHO THEY
PREVIOUSLY HATED BECAUSE OF HIS ROLE IN THE 2016 CAMPAIGN AND
HURTING HILLARY CLINTON, NOW YOU'VE GOT NOT JUST REPUBLICAN
SENATORS BUT EVEN PEOPLE ON THE LEFT WHO ARE SUDDENLY RALLYING
AROUND JEFF SESSIONS, OF ALL PEOPLE, WHO IS PROSECUTING THE
MOST CONSERVATIVE, AGGRESSIVE, RETROGRADE, PRO-LAW AND ORDER AT
THE EXTREME HYPERBOLIC VERSION OF THAT PART OF TRUMP'S AGENDA
THAT YOU COULD POSSIBLY IMAGINE. HE SHALL IT'S PART OF THE THING
THAT GIVES HIM SOME POLITICAL COVER WITH THE ADMINISTRATION IN
ADDITION TO THE SENATORS AND REPUBLICANS WHO ARE
INSTITUTIONALLY AND PERSONALLY FOND OF HIM.
HE'S ALSO SOMEONE WHO HAS THIS WIGGLE ROOM TO FIGHT TRUMP
BECAUSE THE REALITY IS THAT THE TRUMP BASE LOVES JEFF SESSIONS
ON THE MERITS THAT THEY CARE ABOUT, ON IMMIGRATION, ON THESE
LAW ENFORCEMENT ISSUES, RIGHT? BUT IT IS CERTAINLY THE CASE
THAT TRUMP SEEMS TO BE -- JUST DOES NOT SEEM TO CARE ABOUT ANY
OF THAT, AT LEAST SO FAR. THERE IS SOME REPORTING THAT
SUGGESTS THAT HE MAY BE MODERATING.
HE MAY HAVE SPENT HIS RAGE OVER THE LAST COUPLE DAYS, BUT WHEN I
READ, AS I'VE NOW READ IN "THE WASHINGTON POST," AND "THE NEW
YORK TIMES" TONIGHT THAT REINCE PRIEBUS AND STEVE BANNON ARE
TELLING HIM, DON'T DO THIS, I REMEMBER THE LAST TIME THAT
REINCE PRIEBUS AND STEVE BANNON TOLD HIM NOT DO DO SOMETHING,
WHICH WAS DON'T INSTALL ANTHONY SCARAMUCCI AS COMMUNICATIONS
DIRECTOR. HE DID THAT, AND THE FACT THAT
THEY ARE ARGUING HE SHOULDN'T DO THIS, I WOULD NOT SAY THAT IT'S
NECESSARILY A GOOD SIGN, AUGERS
WELL FOR THE CAREER OF JEFF SESSIONS.
>> MIEKE, YOU WORKED WITH REPUBLICANS ON THE HOUSE
INTELLIGENCE QUESTION. HOW SURPRISED ARE YOU THAT THE
LINE THAT THE PRESIDENT CROSSED THAT FINALLY TURNED REPUBLICAN
SENATORS AGAINST WHAT HE'S BEEN THINKING ABOUT IS BASICALLY THAT
HE ATTACKED A FORMER REPUBLICAN SENATOR?
>> WELL, LAWRENCE, I ALSO WORKED FOR SENATOR KENNEDY IN THE
SENATE, AND IT WAS A VERY COLLEGIAL PLACE THEN.
SO THIS IS ABSOLUTELY EXPECTED. THE SENATE IS VERY MUCH OF A
CLUB. AND WHILE SENATOR SESSIONS WAS
ONE OF THE MOST CONSERVATIVE SENATORS THERE WAS, HE WAS VERY
POPULAR AMONG HIS COLLEAGUES. SO IT'S UNSURPRISING THAT THEY
WOULD TAKE UP A STRONG DEFENSE OF HIM.
>> MAX BOOT, YOU'RE A CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICAN WHO
TURNED AGAINST DONALD TRUMP BEFORE HE MANAGED TO INSULT A
FORMER REPUBLICAN SENATOR. I WANT TO READ YOU SOMETHING
THAT CHUCK GRASSLEY TWEETED TONIGHT.
IN TERMS OF ALL OF THE DEFENSES OF JEFF SESSIONS MOUNTED TODAY
BY REPUBLICAN SENATORS, THIS MIGHT ACTUALLY TECHNICALLY BE
THE MOST FORCEFUL ONE. HE SAID, EVERYBODY IN D.C.
SHOULD BE WARNED THAT THE AGENDA FOR THE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE IS
SET FOR THE REST OF THE YEAR, FOR THE REST OF 2017.
JUDGES FIRST, SUB CABINET SECOND, ATTORNEY GENERAL NO WAY.
AND SO, MAX, THERE'S THE GUY WHO WOULD BE RUNNING A CONFIRMATION
FOR THE NEXT ATTORNEY GENERAL SAYING, I WILL NOT SCHEDULE A
CONFIRMATION HEARING FOR ANOTHER ATTORNEY GENERAL IN THIS YEAR.
BUT OF COURSE THAT ALL BECOMES MEANINGLESS IF THE PRESIDENT
DOES A RECESS APPOINTMENT. >> WELL, JUST TO CORRECT FIRST
THE WAY YOU DESCRIBED ME, LAWRENCE, I HAVE TO POINT OUT I
AM A CONSERVATIVE EX-REPUBLICAN. I BECAME AN EX-REPUBLICAN
BECAUSE I WAS SO DISGUSTED WITH DONALD TRUMP, AND IT'S VERY
INTERESTING TO ME AS YOU'RE POINTING OUT WHAT IT IS THAT
MAKES REPUBLICANS FINALLY TURN AGAINST TRUMP.
HE CAN INSULT THE FBI, THE CI, A, MINORITIES, WOMEN,
TRANSGENDERED PEOPLE, ANYBODY IN THE WORLD.
BUT, NO, HE STARTS INSULTING JEFF SESSIONS AND ALL OF A
SUDDEN THEY GET OFFENDED. I'M FEELING A LITTLE CONFLICTED
HERE BECAUSE I AM NO FAN OF JEFF SESSIONS.
REMEMBER THAT HE LIED ABOUT HIS MEETINGS WITH THE RUSSIAN
AMBASSADOR. LAST WEEK WE FOUND OUT THAT
ACCORDING TO THESE INTELLIGENCE INTERCEPTS THAT THEY ACTUALLY
DISCUSSED CAMPAIGN MATERIAL WHICH HE HAD REFUSED TO ADMIT IN
THE PAST. ON THE MERITS YOU CAN MAKE A
STRONG CASE THAT JEFF SESSIONS OUGHT TO RESIGN.
BUT OF COURSE IF HIS RESIGNATION LEADS TRUMP TO APPOINTS A STOOGE
WHO THEN FIRES BOB MUELLER, OF COURSE I WILL JOIN THE CONSENSUS
IN WASHINGTON AND SAY PLEASE, JEFF SESSIONS, STAY RIGHT WHERE
YOU ARE. IT'S AN UNEASY PLACE TO BE, AND
I THINK WHAT WE HAVE TO KEEP IN MIND HERE IS WHAT THIS IS ALL
ABOUT IS HOW SCARED THAT DONALD TRUMP IS OF THE BOB MUELLER
PROBE, HOW SCARED HE IS THAT MUELLER IS GOING TO UNCOVER MORE
COLLUSION WITH RUSSIA, HOW SCARED HE IS OF WHAT MUELLER
WILL FIND IN HIS TAXES AND HIS BUSINESS PRACTICES.
SO MUCH SO THAT HE IS WILLING TO BASICALLY TRASH ONE OF HIS
CLOSEST ALLIES AND TAKE ON THE ENTIRE ESTABLISHMENT IN
WASHINGTON BECAUSE HE THINKS THAT MIGHT BE A BETTER COURSE
FOR HIM THAN ALLOWING THE MUELLER PROBE TO CONTINUE.
THAT'S A VERY, VERY TELLING INDICATOR.
>> JOHN, MAX'S POINT COULDN'T BE MORE IMPORTANT.
EVERYTHING THAT THE PRESIDENT DOES IN THIS ARENA IS THE
BEHAVIOR OF SOMEONE WHO IS COMPLETELY GUILTY.
IF YOU'RE LOOKING FOR LOGIC TO IT, IT IS LOGICAL THAT HE GETS
RID OF COMEY. IT'S LOGICAL THAT HE TRIES TO
FIRE THE SPECIAL PROSECUTOR IF HE'S GUILTY.
>> LOGICAL THAT HE EXPLORES PARDONS IF HE'S GUILTY.
ALL OF THAT'S RIGHT. THE ONE THING THAT'S NOT
RATIONAL, AND IT'S INTERESTING RIGHT NOW BECAUSE I'M TOLD THAT
ALLIES OF SESSIONS ARE TRYING TO ARGUE TO THE WHITE HOUSE,SE, TRG
TO SAY, YOU KNOW, IF YOU WANT TO GET RID OF MUELLER, YOU DON'T
HAVE TO FIRE SESSIONS. JUST DON'T FIRE ROD ROSENSTEIN.
THE PRESIDENT CAN FIRE THE DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL.
HE DOESN'T HAVE TO DO THIS TWO-STEP.
IF HE WANTS TO GET TO MUELLER, SESSIONS WOULD JUST GO AND
INSTALL A NEW DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL.
YOU COULD GET THIS DONE IN A DIFFERENT WAY.
IT SPEAKS TO, YES, THERE'S A LOT OF INDICATIONS THE WAY HE'S
BEHAVING THAT HE IS A MAN WHO IS AFRAID AND A MAN WHO, AGAIN,
WHO'S BEHAVIOR IS GUILTY. THERE'S ALSO THIS CORE OF
IRRATIONALITY TO IT. HE'S ANGRY AT SESSIONS FOR
HAVING DONE THIS RECUSAL. HIS ANGER SEEMS TO BE CLOUDING
HIS JUDGMENT ABOUT HOW TO GET TO THE KIND OF MOVEMENT THAT HE
REALLY WANTS, WHICH IS THE ULTIMATE END GAME HERE, WHICH IS
TO FIRE MUELLER, I THINK. >> AND IN A TWEET TODAY, THE
PRESIDENT FOUND FAULT WITH JEFF SESSIONS FOR NOT DOING SOMETHING
THAT IS NOT WITHIN JEFF SESSIONS' POWER BUT IS WITHIN
DONALD TRUMP'S POWER. HE SAID, WHY DIDN'T A.G.
SESSIONS REPLACE ACTING FBI DIRECTOR ANDREW McCABE, AND SO
FORTH? MIEKE, OF COURSE, THAT IS A
PRESIDENTIAL POWER. THAT IS NOT THE ATTORNEY
GENERAL'S POWER. >> THAT'S ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.
IT'S SORT OF IRONIC THAT DONALD TRUMP IS COMPLAINING ABOUT
ANDREW McCABE'S WIFE RECEIVING POLITICAL CONTRIBUTIONS FROM
DEMOCRATS WHEN DONALD TRUMP HIMSELF HAS GIVEN EXCESSIVELY TO
DEMOCRATS IN CAMPAIGN CONTRIBUTIONS OVER THE YEARS.
SO ALL OF THESE CRITIQUES OF THE MUELLER TEAM AND THEIR PAST
CAMPAIGN CONTRIBUTIONS, SUGGESTING THAT THEY ARE UNABLE
TO BE OBJECTIVE WHEN THEY HAVE BEEN PROFESSIONAL LAWYERS
THROUGHOUT, IS REALLY STUNNING GIVEN HIS OWN POLITICAL
CONTRIBUTION HISTORY. >> SO, MAX, THERE'S BEEN A LOT
OF SPECULATION IN THE PAST ABOUT WHAT WILL REPUBLICANS DO IF, OR
WHERE IS THE BREAKING POINT? THERE ARE REPUBLICANS WHO ARE
KIND OF SUGGESTING THAT THEIR BREAKING POINT WOULD BE THE
FIRING OF JEFF SESSIONS, BUT SCHEME IT OUT FOR US.
LET'S ASSUME THAT THE PRESIDENT EITHER FORCES SESSIONS'
RESIGNATION IN AUGUST OR FIRES HIM IN AUGUST AND DOES A RECESS
APPOINTMENT. WOULD THESE REPUBLICANS WHO ARE
SAYING WE DON'T LIKE THIS TODAY -- WOULD THEY REALLY,
REALLY, WHEN THE MOMENT CAME, STAND UP AGAINST THE PRESIDENT
FOR THIS? >> WELL, THAT'S THE BIG
QUESTION, LAWRENCE, AND THEY HAVE NOT REALLY STOOD UP TO THE
PRESIDENT ON JUST ABOUT ANY ISSUE TO DATE.
SO THE QUESTION IS WOULD THIS BE DIFFERENT?
I THINK ONE WAY YOU COULD MAYBE AVOID THIS IS BY NOT HAVING THE
SENATE GO INTO RECESS, SO AT LEAST NOT GIVE HIM THE
OPPORTUNITY FOR A RECESS APPOINTMENT.
BUT WHAT'S KIND OF TROUBLING TO ME HERE IS ALL THESE SENATORS
ARE DRAWING THE RED LINE AROUND JEFF SESSIONS' JOB WHEREAS TO MY
MIND, THE ACTUAL RED LINE IS TRYING TO FIRE BOB MUELLER.
AND AS MIEKE JUST POINTED OUT, THERE'S OTHER WAYS THAT TRUMP
CAN DO THAT OTHER THAN ACTUALLY REPLACING SESSIONS.
HE CAN TRY TO GO AROUND ROSENSTEIN AND FIND SOMEBODY
ELSE AT THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT WHO WILL FIRE MUELLER FOR HIM,
AND THAT TO ME SHOULD BE THE RED LINE JUST AS HE CROSSED A RED
LINE BY FIRING JAMES COMEY, AND IT'S AMAZING THAT REPUBLICANS
DIDN'T SEEM TO CARE ABOUT THAT. NOW THEY HAVE TO MAKE CLEAR TO
HIM THAT IF HE GETS RID OF MUELLER, THAT THEY WILL
INSTANTLY PASS AN INDEPENDENT COUNSEL STATUTE SO THE
INVESTIGATION WILL NOT END. SO THERE WILL BE COMPLETELY
INDEPENDENT COUNSEL AS THERE WAS PRIOR TO 1999.
THAT IS WHAT REPUBLICANS OUGHT TO BE SAYING.
YOU KNOW, THE ISSUE WITH SESSIONS IS ONLY PART OF IT.
I THINK THE RED LINE REALLY OUGHT TO BE MUELLER.
I WISH THEY WOULD SPEAK OUT MORE ON THAT SUBJECT.
>> JOHN, QUICKLY BEFORE WE GET A BREAK IN.
>> HERE'S A QUESTION FOR YOU AS A SENATE EXPERT, RIGHT?
THERE'S A LINE IN "THE NEW YORK TIMES" REPORT TONIGHT THAT SAYS
THAT SENATE LEADERS MADE CLEAR THAT THEY WOULD BLOCK MR. TRUMP
IN REPLACING MR. SESSIONS IF THEY TRIED TO DO SO DURING THE
RECESS. ONE OF THE MECHANISMS THAT THE
SENATE HAS, WHAT COULD BE DONE ABOUT THAT TO STOP IT.
>> THE RECESS IS A MIRAGE. YOU CAN BASICALLY SEND EVERYBODY
HOME AND TECHNICALLY KEEP THE SENATE IN SESSION, BUT IT WILL
LOOK LIKE A RECESS BUT IT'S TECHNICALLY IN SESSION SO THAT
YOU CAN'T DO RECESS APPOINTMENTS.
MITCH McCONNELL DID THAT, IN FACT, SO THAT PRESIDENT OBAMA
COULDN'T DO RECESS APPOINTMENTS AT CERTAIN POINTS.
SO THAT'S DEFINITELY A STRATEGY, AND THAT WOULD BE COMPLETELY UP
TO MITCH McCONNELL TO DO THAT. THERE'S A VERY TRICKY WAY THAT
THE DEMOCRATS MIGHT ALSO BE ABLE TO KEEP THE RECESS FROM ACTUALLY
BECOMING A FORMAL RECESS THAT OPENS UP THIS WHOLE --
>> THIS MAY BE THE ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION, WHICH IS THEY
MIGHT BE ABLE TO STAND UP TO TRUMP WITHOUT ACTUALLY HAVING TO
STAND UP TO TRUMP. >> THE PASSIVE STANDING UP TO
TRUMP. JOHN H

WaPo: Donald Trump May Replace AG Sessions During Senate Recess | The Last Word | MSNBC

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