Is A 'Madman Theory' At Play Regarding North Korea? | Morning Joe

MANAGER'S HOME WAS RAIDED BY THE FBI.
WE'LL GET TO THAT IN JUST A MOMENT.
LET'S START WITH NORTH KOREA. WE'RE HEARING FROM SECRETARY OF
DEFENSE GENERAL JIM MATTIS FOR THE FIRST TIME SINCE PRESIDENT
TRUMP'S FIRE AND FURY REMARKS TUESDAY.
IN A STATEMENT GENERAL MATTIS SAYS IN PART, QUOTE, THE UNITED
STATES AND OUR ALLIES HAVE THE DEMONSTRATED CAPABILITIES AND
UNQUESTIONABLE COMMITMENT TO DEFEND OURSELVES FROM THE
ATTACK, THE DPRK, NORTH KOREA, SHOULD CEASE ANY CONSIDERATION
OF ACTIONS THAT WOULD LEAD TO THE END OF ITS REGIME AND THE
DESTRUCTION OF ITS PEOPLE. THE DPRK REGIME'S ACTIONS WILL
CONTINUE TO BE GROSSLY OVERMATCHED BY OURS AND WOULD
LOSE ANY ARMS RACE OR CONFLICT IT INITIATES, END QUOTE.
MEANWHILE, THE NORTH KOREAN ARMY HAS RELEASED A NEW STATEMENT
THROUGH ITS STATE-RUN MEDIA SAYING IT WILL DELIVER AN ATTACK

THE STATEMENT COMES DIRECTLY AFTER PRESIDENT TRUMP SAYING HIS
FIRE AND FURY RHETORIC IS, QUOTE, A LOAD OF NONSENSE AND
THAT SOUND DIALOGUE IS NOT POSSIBLE SINCE TRUMP IS, QUOTE,
BEREFT OF REASON. THE RHETORIC ONLY STEPPED UP
FROM WHAT WE SAW YESTERDAY AND YOU HAD WHAT WE HAD AT THE TOP
OF THE SHOW IS AN ADMINISTRATION SCRAMBLING IN BEHIND THE REMARKS
OF FIRE AND FURY BEHIND TRUMP TO SPEAK, AS THE STATE DEPARTMENT
SAID, IN ONE VOICE. >> I THINK WHAT WE'VE SEEN SINCE
THAT VERY INFLAMMATORY RHETORIC IS PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS TO BE
CAREFUL THAT HIS LANGUAGE DOESN'T FRIGHTEN FRIEND AND
ALLIES, DOESN'T FRIGHTEN THE CHINESE SO MUCH THAT THEY END UP
PULLING BACK FROM COOPERATION WITH THE U.S. THAT IT WOULD LOOK
TO SEE ON DIPLOMACY. THE OTHER THING THAT MIGHT BE
VERY SIGNIFICANT IS THIS NORTH KOREAN THREAT TO ATTACK GUAM.
THE U.S. TERRITORY FAIRLY SHORT
FLIGHT, MISSILES WOULD FLY OVER JAPAN AND LAND NEAR GUAM.
I THINK FROM WHAT I'M HEARING, THE ADMINISTRATION IS MAKING
THIS TEST, THIS ADDITIONAL TEST COMING SO CLOSE TO U.S.
TERRITORY REALLY A TEST OF THE LARGEST STRATEGY.
IF THE NORTH KOREANS ATTEMPT TO STRIKE NEAR U.S. TERRITORY, I
THINK THERE WILL BE REPERCUSSIONS.
I THINK THE ROUTE OF DIPLOMACY AMONG OTHER THINGS WILL COME TO
A SCREECHING HALT. WHAT THE STATE DEPARTMENT IS
LOOKING FOR THE NORTH KOREANS TO SAY, NO, WE WON'T TEST.
INSTEAD WE'RE WILLING TO BEGIN TALKS ABOUT DENUCLEARIZATION.
IT'S A NORTH KOREAN DEFIANT ANNOUNCEMENT THEY'RE GOING THEIR
OWN WAY. >> DAVID, WHAT ROLE DID THE
PRESIDENT'S INCENDIARY COMMENTS THE OTHER DAY PLAY DO YOU THINK
OR DO YOU HEAR FROM YOUR REPORTING IN THE NORTH KOREANS
SEEMINGLY RATCHETING UP VERY QUICKLY THEIR RESPONSE TO
ATTACKING GUAM? >> MIKE, I THINK IN THIS
RHETORICAL BACK AND FORTH, THE NORTH KOREANS DID WHAT YOU WOULD
EXPECT. PRESIDENT TRUMP WAS SPEAKING IN
KIM JONG UN LANGUAGE AND IT WAS RECEIVED IN KIND.
THE REACTION THAT CONCERNS ME MORE ARE THE COUNTRIES WE'D HAVE
TO FIGHT WITH. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A WAR WITH
THE KOREAN PENINSULA. IT A WAR YOU HAVE TO CONDUCT
CLOSELY WITH YOUR ALLIES. NUMBERS I FOUND IN A LATE JUNE
PEW RESEARCH POLL, CONFIDENCE IN THE U.S. PRESIDENT TO DO THE
RIGHT THING REGARDING WORLD AFFAIRS HAS FALLEN IN SOUTH
KOREA SINCE DONALD TRUMP TOOK OFFICE FROM 71 TO 17, THAT'S A
FALL OF 75 POINTS. IN JAPAN IT FALLEN FROM 78 TO
24, A FALL OF 54 POINTS. ALMOST IDENTICAL IN AUSTRALIA.
THESE ARE COUNTRIES WHICH WOULD HAVE TO BE OUR PARTNERS THAT ARE
ALREADY WORRIED. THESE POLLS WERE TAKEN BEFORE WE
WERE IN THIS PHASE OF FIRE AND FURY.
NOW I THINK THERE'S EVEN GREATER ANXIETY.
THE PROBLEM IS IF THE ANXIETY ISN'T CONTROLLED, OUR ALLIES ARE
GOING TO BE RELUCTANT TO DO THE THINGS WE NEED THEM TO DO.
WE CANNOT DO THIS ATTACK ALONE. >> CLINT, YOU SERVED SOME TIME
IN SOUTH KOREA. WE TALKED ABOUT WHAT IT WAS LIKE
20 YEARS AGO. IT BEEN TENSE SINCE THE KOREAN
WAR ALONG THE DMZ BUT WHAT IT MUST HAVE BEEN LIKE TO BE IN
SEOUL IN LEADERSHIP OR TO BE IN TOKYO.
WHAT DO YOU THINK IS GOING THROUGH THE MIND OF ALLIES THAT
DAVID IGNATIUS IS REFERENCING HERE?
>> WE'RE TALKING ABOUT NUCLEAR STANDOFF.
THERE A LOT SHORT OF NUCLEAR STANDOFF.
I REMEMBER RISING UP IN A HELICOPTER IN SEOUL.
CAN YOU SEE THE BORDER. YOU'RE WITHIN ARTILLERY RANGE.
YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT LOTS OF OTHER THREATS THAT CAN MANIFEST.
WE SEEN NORTH KOREA GREATLY EXPAND THEIR CYBER ATTACK
ABILITIES, ATTACKS ON U.S. COMPANIES, U.S. BANKING SYSTEMS.
EVEN THIS CHALLENGE IN THE NUCLEAR SPACE, WE'VE SEEN KIM
JONG UN ASSASSINATE MEMBERS OF HIS OWN FAMILY OUTSIDE THE
COUNTRY IN RECENT MONTHS. SO THIS SORT OF TOSSING OUT FIRE
AND FURY, THESE STATEMENTS TO APPEAR TOUGH.
FINE, IF YOU'RE NORTH KOREA, YOU WILL TAKE THAT CHALLENGE AND IT
HELPS HIM REINFORCE HIS BASE THAT THEY'RE UNDER THREAT FROM
THE UNITED STATES AND YOU'LL SEE ACTION IN OTHER WAYS.
IF YOU'RE NORTH KOREA NOW YOU START TO PINPRICK THE U.S. AND
THE ALLIES WHO ARE NOW BREAKING AWAY FROM US IN WAYS YOU MIGHT
NOT EXPECT. >> FAR FROM BACKING AWAY TWO
DAYS AGO FROM WHAT THE PRESIDENT SAID AT BEDMINISTER, THE
CONGRESS FALLING IN BEHIND HIM. >> SEE AD LIBBED AND HE USED
SOME CATCH PHRASES THAT HE TENDS TO USE, THE LIKES OF WHICH THE
WORD HAS NEVER SEEN THE CLASS OF DONALD TRUMP ON AND THAT SET THE
TONE FOR THE REST OF THE ADMINISTRATION.
THE "DAILY BEAST" WAS TOLD THE SECRETARY OF STATE'S OFFICE HAD
NO CLUE THIS WAS COMING. IT'S AN ODD WAY TO GO ABOUT
SETTING NUCLEAR DETERRENT POLICY.
I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S AN EFFECTIVE WAY.
BUT TO DAVID'S POINT, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE SHOULD NOTE IS
THAT WE DON'T HAVE CRITICAL AMBASSADORS IN KEY POSTS IN THAT
REGION RIGHT NOW. WE HAVE ACTING SECRETARIES AND
ACTING AMBASSADORS. SOUTH KOREA, EAST ASIAN AFFAIRS,
THEY'RE JUST VACANT. I WAS TALKING TO RICHARD HAAS
ABOUT THIS. THE ANALOGY HE GAVE IS THIS THE
EQUIVALENT OF PLAYING A WORLD SERIES GAME WITH THREE LESS
STARTERS THAN THE OPPOSITION. SO THIS IS GOING IN KIND OF
BLIND. >> WE'VE HEARD FROM JOHN McCAIN
AND A FEW OTHER PROMINENT SENATORS.
WHAT'S THE FEELING IN CONGRESS RIGHT NOW?
>> I THINK HONESTLY THE SENSE FROM TALKING TO PEOPLE BEHIND
THE SCENES IS THE SAME AS I THINK EVERYBODY WATCHING THIS
UNFOLD, WHICH IS TO SAY THERE WAS A GREAT DEAL OF NERVOUSNESS.
McCAIN WAS CAREFUL SAYING I DON'T WANT TO STEP OUT IN FRONT
OF THE PRESIDENT NECESSARILY AND SAY HE SHOULD BE DOING THIS OR
TAKING THAT OFF THE TABLE, BUT THAT THIS RHETORIC, YOU BETTER
BE ABLE TO BACK THAT UP. IF YOU'RE SAY THIS KIND OF THING
YOU BETTER ABSOLUTELY MEAN IT. I THINK LINDSEY GRAHAM GAVE THE
PRESIDENT MORE COVER, GRAHAM AND McCAIN HAVE TENDED TO FAVOR
MILITARY OPTIONS IN THE PAST BUT I THINK FOR A LOT OF DEMOCRATS,
CHUCK SCHUMER PUT OUT A ONE-LINE STATEMENT SAYING WE NEED TO
WORRY ABOUT NORTH KOREA BUT WE REALLY SHOULDN'T TALK THIS WAY.
I THINK THERE WAS A LEVEL OF FEAR UNDER THAT STATEMENT THAT
IS COMMON. >> I HAVE HEARD ONE ARGUMENT, I
DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH I BUY IT, THAT THERE IS A UTILITY TO TRUMP
SAYING THIS STUFF. THE NOTION THAT THE NORTH
KOREANS MIGHT THINK THAT THIS IS A BIT OF A MAD MAN WHO CAN BE
TRIGGERED TO DO SOMETHING CAN BE A DETERRENT.
AND THERE WAS A VIBE OF RICHARD NIXON AND RONALD REAGAN EVEN,
YOU NEVER KNEW IF THAT BUTTON WAS GOING TO BE PUSHED.
DOES IT HAVE RESONANCE, IS IT LOGICAL?
>> I THINK THE MAD MAN THEORY THINKING THIS GUY WILL DO
ANYTHING, DOES HAVE SOME UTILITY.
THE MOST IMPORTANT AUDIENCE, AS WE WERE DISCUSSING YESTERDAY,
MAY IN FACT BE CHINA. THE WHOLE GUIDING THEME OF THIS
STRATEGY IS THAT WE'RE SAYING TO CHINA THIS IS SO IMPORTANT TO
US, THAT NORTH KOREAN MISSILES ARE INTOLERANT TO THE PRESIDENT,
EITHER YOU HELP US DEAL WITH IT DIPLOMATICALLY OR WE'RE GOING TO
DEAL WITH IT OURSELVES MILITARILY.
THAT DEPEND ON THE CHINESE THINKING WE REALLY MEAN IT,
WE'LL DO IT. >> AND THE PRESIDENT RETWEETS A
POST SAYING "POTUS BEING UNPREDICTABLE IS A BIG ASSET."
>> HE SHOULDN'T TWEET THAT. >> AND DONALD TRUMP RETWEETED
THAT. THAT'S WHAT I THINK YOU'RE
SAYING, A MADMAN, THE UNPREDICTABILITY.
>> IF YOU TWEET THAT YOU'RE
UNPREDICTABLE, YOU'RE GIVING AWAY THE SCRIPT.
COME ON, TRUMP. >> I WAS STRUCK BY THE FEAR THAT
THIS IS LESS-THAN-RATIONAL BEHAVIOR COMING OUT OF THE OVALS
OFFICE, NOT THE WHITE HOUSE BUT THE OVAL OFFICE.
AND GENERAL HAYDEN'S WORDS IN THE "NEW YORKER" MAGAZINE IS
THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS LITTLE INTEREST IN THE WORLD, THEIR
FEAR IS THAT THE ACCIDENTAL START OF A WAR COULD EASILY
OCCUR. >> I'M HEARING THAT SAME FEAR,
MIKE. THE PRESIDENT IS JUST SORT OF
RACING TOWARD THE BRINK HERE, INTRODUCING LANGUAGE EVOCATIVE
OF NUCLEAR WAR, FIRE AND FURY. DID HE REALLY UNDERSTAND WHAT HE
WAS DOING, THE COUNTRY TAKING THE WORLD SO DEEP INTO THE
WORLD'S ULTIMATE NIGHTMARE? AN INTERESTING THING I READ LAST
NIGHT IS A PIECE IN THE "WASHINGTON POST" BY MY FRIEND
MICHAEL DOBBS, WHO COVERED THE SOVIET UNION AND WRITTEN A BOOK
ON THE CUBAN MISSILE PRIVACY. ON THE EVE OF THE CUBAN MISSILE
CRISIS, PRESIDENT KENNEDY WAS READING A BOOK ABOUT -- DONALD
TRUMP IS SAYING WHAT'S A STRONG, RHETORICAL WAY OF SAYING THE
NORTH KOREANS I MEAN IT, A VERY DIFFERENT MINDSET.
I HOPE THAT PEOPLE WILL SAY TO THE PRESIDENT YOU NEED TO TAKE
THIS IN A VERY SOBER WAY. THIS IS ABOUT NUCLEAR WAR.
>> MAYBE YOU CAN GET JOHN HERBIE'S HIROSHIMA BOOKS ON TAPE
AND HE COULD LISTEN TO IT. I GUESS HE DOESN'T READ A LOT OF
BOOKS BUT HE COULD LISTEN TO BOOKS ON TAPE.
>> I'LL PAY HALF. >> IT'S AN INCREDIBLE PIECE.

Is A 'Madman Theory' At Play Regarding North Korea? | Morning Joe | MSNBC

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