Joe: After This, Firing Robert Mueller Is Simply Untenable | Morning Joe

TODAY" HEIDI PRYZBYLA. >> KIND OF BIG NEWS.
>> NEW DEVELOPMENTS AND REACTION THIS MORNING IN THE
INVESTIGATION INTO RUSSIA, THE 2016 ELECTION AND PRESIDENT
TRUMP. "THE WALL STREET JOURNAL"
REPORTS SPECIAL COUNSEL ROBERT MUELLER HAS EMPANELLED A GRAND
JURY IN WASHINGTON TO INVESTIGATE RUSSIA'S
INTERFERENCE IN THE 2016 ELECTIONS.
"THE WASHINGTON POST" REPORTED MUELLER BEGAN USING THE GRAND
JURY IN D.C. SEVERAL WEEKS AGO. "THE NEW YORK TIMES" REPORTS
THAT MUELLER HAS ISSUED SUBPOENAS FROM THE
WASHINGTON-BASED GRAND JURY ACCORDING TO SEVERAL LAWYERS
INVOLVED IN THE CASE, AT LEAST SOME RELATED TO FORMER NATIONAL
SECURITY ADVISER MICHAEL FLYNN. NBC NEWS REPORTED IN MAY INTO
GRAND JURIES BEFORE MUELLER WAS APPOINTED.
FEDERAL PROSECUTORS HAD BEEN USING AT LEAST ONE OTHER GRAND
JURY LOCATED IN ALEXANDRIA, VIRGINIA.
A FORMER INTELLIGENCE OFFICIAL WITH KNOWLEDGE OF THE
DISCUSSIONS HAS TOLD NBC NEWS IS LOOKING AT WHETHER THE PRESIDENT
MAY HAVE BSTRUCTED JUSTICE. A GRAND JURY IS USUALLY USED FOR
COMPLEX INVESTIGATION, NOT ONLY FOR INVESTIGATION BUT ALSO FOR
OBTAINING RECORDS. HE ADDED THAT MR. COMEY TOLD THE
PRESIDENT AT LEAST THREE TIMES THAT HE'S NOT UNDER
INVESTIGATION AND WE HEARD NOTHING THAT WOULD CHANG THAT.
THE ONLY CONCERN AT THE WHITE HOUSE IS THAT THIS BE DONE FAST
AND FAIRLY. >> IF YOU TAKE THE LAWYERS FOR
THE PRESIDENT THAT PEOPLE ARE ACTUALLY REPRESENTING HIM AND
NOT JUST THOSE THAT ARE PLAYING LAWYERS ON TV, THEY'VE BEEN
DISCIPLINED FOR THE MOST PART, KEPT THEIR HEADS DOWN, THEY'VE
BEEN RESPECTFUL OF THE PROCESS AND OF ROBERT MUELLER.
EVEN YESTERDAY THEY WERE RESPECTFUL OF ROBERT MUELLER
WHILE THESE TV ATTORNEYS THAT PROBABLY GO BEFORE JUDGE JUDY
AND JUDGE WAPNER GO UP THERE AND EMBARRASS THEMSELVES.
IT MEANS SO MANY TIMES WHEN WE LIVE IN THE LAZY HAZY DAYS OF
THE MOOCH ERA, PEOPLE WILL SAY, WELL, YOU CAN'T OBSTRUCT JUSTICE
BECAUSE THERE'S NOT REALLY AN INVESTIGATION YET AND ARE'S
NOT -- THERE'S NOT REALLY A GRAND JURY EMPANELLED.
WELL THERE, IS A GRAND JURY EMPANELLED.
TWO GUYS FROM THE CAROLINAS GOING -- NOW THAT THERE IS A
GRAND JURY EMPANELLED, FIRING HIM IS SIMPLY UNTENABLE.
>> AND IT'S ABOUT A LOT MORE THAN MICHAEL FLYNN.
AS "THE WALL STREET JOURNAL" REPORTS, WE ALREADY KNEW ABOUT A
GRAND JURY IN VIRGINIA LOOKING INTO MICHAEL FLYNN AND PAUL
MANAFORT. THIS IS A SEPARATE ONE MEANING
THIS IS A MUCH BIGGER, LONGER TERM INVESTIGATION ABOUT
ANYTHING OTHER THAN MICHAEL FLYNN.
>> AND ALSO TALKING ABOUT PAST FINANCIAL CRIMES.
>> LET'S BRING IN "THE WALL STREET JOURNAL" REPORTER THAT
BROKE THE STORY, DEL, IF YOU COULD TALK ABOUT HAVING A
GRAND JURY SEPARATE AND APART FROM THE
ONE IN ALEXANDRIA, VIRGINIA, WHAT'S THE SIGNIFICANCE THERE?
>> WE ALREADY KNEW THE NORTHERN VIRGINIA GRAND JURY, ABOUT TEN
CLOGGED TRAFFIC MILES FROM D.C., THEY'RE GOING TO BE WORKING WITH
A FEDERAL GRAND JURY CLOSER TO HIS OFFICE IN D.C. WHICH IS MUCH
MORE CONVENIENT BUT, B, IF YOU WERE WERE ONLY LOOKING AT
MANAFORT, YOU'D BE REINVENTING THE WHEEL.
THIS SHOWS THE INVESTIGATION HAS BROADENED.
>> TO BE CLEAR FOR PEOPLE LISTENING, THE SIGNIFICANCE
BROADLY OF HAVING A GRAND JURY, MY WLA MIGHT IT BE DOING RIGHT
NOW AND WHAT CAN IT DO EVENTUALLY?
>> IT'S A POWERFUL FOOL FOR PROSECUTORS.
A, HE'LL ASK A FEDERAL JUDGE TO START A GRAND JURY OR ONE HAS
BEEN STARTED AND ROBERT MUELLER WILL GO TO THE GRAND JURY AND
SAY, HEY, I'M INVESTIGATING THIS, THIS, AND THIS, I NEED
YOUR AUTHORITY TO PERMIT ME TO ISSUE SUBPOENAS, GATHER
INFORMATION, BRING SOME WITNESSES TO YOU, COMPEL
TESTIMONY. BY ISSUING THOSE SUBPOENAS,
PEOPLE HAVE TO COMPLY OR GET HAULED BEFORE A COURT.
AND IT LOCKS PEOPLE INTO THEIR TESTIMONY.
IF IT'S NEAR HIS OFFICES, IT'S MUCHIES EASIER TO WORK WITH A
WITNESS IN A SECURE FACILITY AND THEN YOU HUSTLE THEM OVER BEFORE
THE GRAND JURY AND LOCK IN THEIR TESTIMONY.
>> YOU LOOK AT THE LAST GRAND JURY EMPANELLED FOR A PRESIDENT
AND YOU LOOK AT BILL CLINTON. AND THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE
THAT KNEW THAT BILL CLINTON COMMITTED PERJURY IN HIS
DEPOSITION THAT SAID,, OKAY, HE WAS SURPRISED, IT WAS A
DEPOSITION, WE'RE NOT GOING TO VOTE TO IMPEACH HIM FOR
COMMITTING PERJURY IN A DEPOSITION.
ONCE YOU GO IN FRONT OF A GIR, YOU LIE IN FRONT OF A GRAND
JURY, AT LEAST WHERE I'M FROM, YOU GO TO JAIL.
YOU'RE IN A PENITENTIARY IN ATLANTA, GEORGIA FOR A TIME.
FOR PEOPLE AT HOME TO UNDERSTAND, THIS ISN'T JUST SOME
LITTLE PROCEDURAL TRICK, THE STAKES HAVE BEEN RAISED.
YOU LIE IN FRONT OF A GRAND JURY, YOU'RE A FELON AND YOU'RE
GOING TO JAIL. AND IF YOU'RE A PRESIDENT,
YOU'RE GOING TO GET IMPEACHED. >> AND THE FBI CAN ASK YOU TO
COME IN FOR AN INTERVIEW AND OF COURSE IF YOU LIE, THAT'S
COMMITTING A CRIME. THE GRAND JURY CAN COMPEL YOU TO
COME IN UNDER OATH WITHOUT YOUR LAWYER AND ANSWER QUESTIONS AND
YOU BETTER ANSWER THEM TRUTHFULLY.
>> IT'S A WHOLE DIFFERENT BALL GAME.
DEL, THIS IS GENE ROBINSON, GREAT STORY.
>> THANK YOU. >> WHAT DO YOU KNOW ABOUT
POTENTIAL SUBPOENAS THAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN ISSUED FOR TESTIMONY
OR DOCUMENTS? >> OTHER NEWS ORGANIZATIONS
INCLUDING THE POST, THE TIMES AND REUTERS HAVE REPORTED THAT
THEY'VISH UFRD SUBPOENAS TO VARIOUS PEOPLE INVOLVED IN THIS
INVESTIGATION. THEY'RE LOOKING AT POSSIBLE
CRIMES RANGING FROM OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE TO THE UNDERLYING
FACTS OF MICHAEL FLYNN AND HIS WORK FOR FOREIGN BUSINESS
INTERESTS. THE POINT OF THE GRAND JURY
PROCESS IS THAT IT'S -- MULLY IT TAKEN OVER THE
COUNTERINTELLIGENCE INVESTIGATION.
IF YOU'RE DOING A COUNTERINTELLIGENCE
INVESTIGATION, IT'S VERY SECRETIVE.
GRAND JURIES ARE ALSO SECRET BUT IT'S A LEVEL OF PUBLIC
DISCLOSURE THAT CAN COME WITH IT.
FOR EXAMPLE, WITNESSES CAN LEAVE THE GRAND JURY AND TELL YOU
EVERYTHING THEY SAID. YOU GET A SUBPOENA, YOU CAN PUT
IT ONLINE. THERE'S NOTHING PREVENTING THAT.
THERE'S MORE OF A RISK OF THANKSGIVING BECOMING PUBLIC.
IT'S ENTERING A PUBLIC PHASE. >> AND THE GRAND JURORS
THEMSELVES ARE NOT ABLE TO TALK ABOUT ANYTHING THAT HAPPENS IN
THE TESTIMONY ROOM. BUT PEOPLE WHO TESTIFY ARE.
THIS IS A NEW GRAND JURY EMPANELLED, IS THAT RIGHT?
>> WE WERE TOLD HE WENT AND GOT HIS OWN GRAND JURY.
IF YOU'RE WORKING ON A COMPLICATED AND IT'S A REALLY
COMPLEX MANNER AND YOU DON'T WANT GRAND JUROR' MINDS GETTING
CLOGGED UP WITH 150 OTHER CASES. BEING UNDER GRAND JURY
INVESTIGATION, IT DOESN'T MEAN THERE ARE GOING TO BE
INDICTMENTS, IT'S SECRETIVE FOR A REASON TO PROTECT THE
INNOCENT. IT'S NOT A PUBLIC FLOGGING.
IT'S AN INTERESTING STEP, IT'S AN IMPORTANT STATE POLICE ABOUT
AND WE SHOULD BE VIEWING THIS AS INDICTMENTS COMING DOWN THE
ROAD. >> Chip: "THE WALL STREET
JOURNAL" THANK YOU FOR YOUR REPORTING.
>> CLINT, WHAT DO YOU THINK? WHAT'S THE IMPACT?
>> LOCATION MATTERS MORE THAN CONVENIENCE.
USUALLY WHEN YOU SEE THE CRIME WHERE IT OWE KURKS THIS COULD BE
SIGNALING WHATEVER THEY'RE LOOKING AT HAS A NEXUS IN D.C.,
NOT IN NEW YORK. AND YOU WANT TO BRING IN FOR
TESTIMONY AND FOR RECORD THINGS THAT YOU WANT TO LOCK DOWN
EARLY. SO FINANCIAL RECORDS.
A SMART PERSON ON DEFENSE WILL GOOD LAWYERS IS NOT GOING TO
COUGH ANYTHING UP UNLESS THEY'RE COMMANDED TO UNDER THREAT OF
GOING TO JAIL. SAME THING AS AS IF YOU'VE GOT
COOPERATING WITNESSES OR PEOPLE ON THE PERIPHERY O HAVE MADE
PUBLIC STATEMENTS AND LOCK THEM INTO THEIR TESTIMONY BECAUSE
THAT CAN THEN BOX IN OTHER PEOPLE.
SO THE SOONER YOU GET THEM IN, THERE THE MORE STRATEGIC YOU CAN
ANGLE. >> I THINK JUST AS BIG WAS THE
DAY BEFORE WHOSE SPECIALTY IS YOU KNOW, THE CLINTON
INVESTIGATION STARTED OUT WITH WHITEWATER AND ENDED UP WITH
FINANCE. THIS IS ABOUT MONEY.
IT'S VERY SIMPLE. ONCE THE SUBPOENA WITNESSES AND
DOCUMENTS, ONCE THOSE FINANCIAL DOCUMENTS START COMING IN ABOUT
THE LAST 20 YEARS OF DOING BUSINESS WITH RUSSIA, IT IS
BECAUSE IT'S OVER. ONCE YOU START PEELING THOSE
PIECES OF PAPER BACK, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE SLEAZIEST
BUSINESSMAN DOING BUSINESS WITH RUSSIAN

Joe: After This, Firing Robert Mueller Is Simply Untenable | Morning Joe | MSNBC

Latest Posts