Lawrence On GOP & Birtherism Regrets: 'Better Late Than Never' | The Last Word

>>> AND NOW FOR TONIGHT'S EPISODE OF "BETTER LATE THAN
NEVER" STARRING REPUBLICAN SENATOR JEFF FLAKE.
SIX YEARS LATE. >> I WISH THAT WE AS A PARTY
WOULD HAVE STOOD UP, FOR EXAMPLE, WHEN THE BIRTHERISM
THING WAS GOING ON. A LOT OF PEOPLE DID STAND UP,
BUT NOT ENOUGH. >> DID YOU DO ENOUGH?
>> THAT WAS PARTICULARLY UGLY. >> I'M JUST CURIOUS.
>> ON THAT, I THINK I DID. >> OH, NO, NO, NO, NO, YOU DID
NOT. YOU DEFINITELY DID NOT DO
ENOUGH. THE FIRST TIME WE CAN FIND JEFF
FLAKE SAYING SOMETHING NEGATIVE ABOUT DONALD TRUMP'S LIES ABOUT
BARACK OBAMA'S BIRTH WAS IN JUNE OF LAST YEAR AFTER DONALD TRUMP
HAD ALREADY LOCKED UP THE REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL
NOMINATION. AND WHAT JEFF FLAKE SAID THEN
WAS NOT EXACTLY A CONDEMNATION. HE SAID, QUOTE, HE HAS SAID HE'S
AN UNAPOLOGETIC BIRTHER. I DON'T KNOW HOW ANYBODY

SERIOUSLY ANY RIGHT-THINKING PERSON CAN BELIEVE THAT CAN ARD.
BUT I THINK HE KNOWS A LOT OF REPUBLICANS BELIEVE IT, AND HE'S
WILLING TO PANDER TO THEM. IF REPUBLICANS AS A PARTY HAD
STOOD UP AGAINST DONALD TRUMP'S LIES ABOUT PRESIDENT OBAMA'S
BIRTH SIX YEARS AGO, THEY COULD HAVE STOPPED TRUMPISM IN ITS
TRACKS, BUT THEY DIDN'T, AND JEFF FLAKE DIDN'T.
HERE'S DONALD TRUMP SIX YEARS AGO, APRIL 7th, 2011.
>> HE MAY NOT HAVE BEEN BORN IN THIS COUNTRY, AND I'LL TELL YOU
WHAT. THREE WEEKS AGO I THOUGHT HE WAS
BORN IN THIS COUNTRY. RIGHT NOW I HAVE SOME REAL
DOUBTS. I HAVE PEOPLE ACTUALLY BEEN
STUDYING WITH IT, AND THEY CANNOT BELIEVE WHAT THEY'RE
FINDING. >> YOU HAVE PEOPLE NOW DOWN
THERE SEARCHING, YOU MEAN IN HAWAII?
>> ABSOLUTELY, AND THEY CANNOT BELIEVE WHAT THEY'RE FINDING.
>> I SAID DONALD TRUMP WAS LYING ABOUT THAT THAT DAY, SIX YEARS
AGO. JEFF FLAKE SAID NOTHING.
BUT YESTERDAY JEFF FLAKE SAID HE THOUGHT HE DID ENOUGH IN TAKING
A STANCE AGAINST THAT LIE. THE FIRST TIME DONALD TRUMP
OPENED HIS MOUTH ABOUT PRESIDENT OBAMA'S BIRTH, I SAID HE WAS
LYING. JEFF FLAKE SAID NOTHING.
THE NEWS MEDIA AS A WHOLE NEVER FIGURED OUT HOW TO HANDLE DONALD
TRUMP'S LYING ABOUT PRESIDENT OBAMA'S BIRTH IN INTERVIEWS, AND
DONALD TRUMP KNEW THEY WOULD NEVER FIGURE OUT HOW TO HANDLE
HIS LYING BECAUSE NONE OF THEM WERE ACCUSTOMED TO DEALING WITH
AN OUTRIGHT PATHOLOGICAL LIAR TALKING ABOUT THE PRESIDENT OF
THE UNITED STATES ON TELEVISION IN INTERVIEWS.
SO EVERY TRUMP INTERVIEWER FAILED WHENEVER THE SUBJECT OF
PRESIDENT OBAMA'S BIRTH CAME UP. FOR SIX YEARS, THEY FAILED,
EVERY ONE OF THEM. AND THEN LAST YEAR, DONALD TRUMP
SAID PRESIDENT OBAMA WAS APPARENTLY BORN IN THE UNITED
STATES, AND HE DIDN'T WANT TO T TALK ABOUT IT ANYMORE.
AND THE NEWS MEDIA FOR THE MOST PART FOLLOWED HIS ORDERS AND DID
NOT ASK HIM ABOUT IT ANYMORE. AND THE FINAL GREAT ATTEMPT --
AND I DO MEAN GREAT ATTEMPT -- TO CORNER DONALD TRUMP ON THIS
WAS ADMIRABLY LAUNCHED BY LESTER HOLT IN THE FIRST TRUMP VERSUS
CLINTON PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE. LESTER HOLT WENT AT IT
REPEATEDLY. HE WENT AT IT SEVERAL TIMES
BEFORE EVENTUALLY BEING FORCED TO MOVE ON BECAUSE OF THE DEBATE
FORMAT TO OTHER SUBJECTS. LESTER HOLT'S FINAL ATTEMPT TO
GET DONALD TRUMP TO ADMIT HIS LIE ABOUT PRESIDENT OBAMA AND
ADMIT THAT IT WAS A LIE WITH A RACIST APPEAL.
IN THAT FINAL ATTEMPT, DONALD TRUMP CLOSED THE BOOK ON THE
SUBJECT THIS WAY. >> WE'RE TALKING ABOUT RACIAL
HEALING IN THIS SEGMENT. WHAT DO YOU SAY TO AMERICANS --
>> WELL, IT WAS VERY -- I SAY NOTHING.
I SAY NOTHING BECAUSE I WAS ABLE TO GET HIM TO PRODUCE IT.
HE SHOULD HAVE PRODUCED IT A LONG TIME BEFORE.
I SAY NOTHING. >> I SAY NOTHING.
WELL, JEFF FLAKE SAID NOTHING. HE SAID NOTHING TOO.
HE SAID NOTHING THAT NIGHT ABOUT DONALD TRUMP'S RACIST LIE.
IT WOULD HAVE BEEN MUCH MORE IMPORTANT FOR JEFF FLAKE TO SAY
SOMETHING THAT NIGHT, ON DEBATE NIGHT, THAN IT WAS YESTERDAY NOW
THAT DONALD TRUMP IS THE MOST UNPOPULAR FIRST-YEAR PRESIDENT
IN THE HISTORY OF POLLING. IT TAKES FAR LESS POLITICAL
COURAGE TO SAY THAT NOW, BUT THIS IS NOT THE WHERE WERE YOU
WHEN WE NEEDED YOU SEGMENT, IT IS THE BETTER LATE THAN NEVER
SEGMENT. SO THIS IS ONE OF THOSE MOMENTS
WHERE GRACIOUSNESS SHOULD OVERRULE OTHER FEELINGS.
SO IT'S TIME TO SAY THANK YOU, JEFF FLAKE, BECAUSE BETTER LATE
THAN NEVER. BUT WE ARE NEVER GOING TO COUNT
JEFF FLAKE AS PART OF AMERICA'S EARLY WARNING SYSTEM THAT WILL
TRY TO SAVE US FROM THE WORST POISONS IN OUR POLITICAL SYSTEM.
>>> DURING RALLIES WHEN THE CHANTS "LOCK HER UP," YOU KNOW,
WE SHOULDN'T BE THE PARTY FOR JAILING YOUR POLITICAL
OPPONENTS, AND ANYBODY AT THAT RALLY, ANYBODY AT THOSE RALLIES
OUGHT TO STAND UP AND SAY THAT'S INAPPROPRIATE.
WE SHOULDN'T BE DOING THAT. >> JOINING OUR BETTER LATE THAN
NEVER DISCUSSION, JONATHAN CAPEHART, AN MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR.
ALSO WITH US, DAVID JOLLY, FORMER REPUBLICAN CONGRESSMAN
FROM FLORIDA. JONATHAN, JEFF FLAKE, IT'S
BETTER LATE THAN NEVER, I GUESS. HE'S OPPOSED TO THE LOCKER UP
CHANTS. GOOD TO KNOW.
AND HE THINKS THE ATTACKS ON PRESIDENT OBAMA'S BIRTH WAS
SOMETHING THAT MAYBE REPUBLICANS SHOULD HAVE STOOD IN THE WAY OF.
>> I THINK YOU RAISED A VERY GOOD POINT IN YOUR EXCELLENT
SUMMATION BEFORE WE CAME BACK. YOU KNOW, IN HIS NEW BOOK,
DEVIL'S BARGAIN, JOSH GREEN WRITES THAT THE LESSON THAT
TRUMP LEARNED FROM THAT WHOLE RACIST BIRTHER LIE THAT HE
PERPETUATED FOR YEARS -- >> FOR FIVE YEARS BEFORE THE
CAMPAIGN. >> RIGHT.
THE THING THAT HE LEARNED, THE NUMBER ONE LESSON THAT HE
LEARNED FROM THAT WAS THAT THERE WAS NO PRICE TO PAY FOR SAYING
SOMETHING SO OUTRAGEOUS, SO RACIST ABOUT THE SITTING
PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. AND AS A RESULT, WE SAW HIM GO
OUT AND ACTUALLY RUN FOR PRESIDENT AND SLANDER HIS FELLOW
OPPONENTS, LYIN' TED, LOW ENERGY JEB, CROOKED HILLARY, LITTLE
MARCO. SO, YOU KNOW, I'M ACTUALLY VERY
HAPPY THAT SENATOR FLAKE HAS FOUND IT WITHIN HIMSELF TO BE
VERY BOLD AND VERY VOCAL ABOUT WHAT THE PARTY NEEDS TO DO NOW
THAT TRUMP IS PRESIDENT AND HE IS VIOLATING EVERY CONVENTION,
EVERY NORM, EVERYTHING THAT WE USED TO HOLD DEAR ABOUT AMERICAN
POLITICAL DISCUSSION, NOW THAT HE'S TRASHED ALL OF THAT.
BUT WHAT IT'S GOING TO REQUIRE FOR JEFF FLAKE'S WORD TO HAVE
ANY MEANING IS HE'S GOING TO HAVE TO DO ALL OF THIS WHEN
THERE IS NO BOOK TOUR, AND HE'S GOING TO HAVE TO CONVINCE SENIOR
MEMBERS OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY TO FOLLOW HIM IN SAYING THE
EXACT SAME THING. >> WELL, HIS SENIOR SENATOR FROM
ARIZONA, JOHN McCAIN, IN OUR OPENING SEGMENT, HE SAID, THEY
SEE WEAKNESS IN THIS PRESIDENT. DAVID JOLLY, HE WAS TALKING
ABOUT THE POTENTIAL REPUBLICAN CANDIDATES FOR PRESIDENT WHO
MIGHT RUN IN THE NEXT ELECTION. >> SURE.
>> WHETHER DONALD TRUMP RUNS OR NOT.
>> SURE. LOOK, WE KNOW THIS PRESIDENT IS
HISTORICALLY WEAK, BUT JONATHAN'S EXACTLY RIGHT.
WHAT TRUMP PROVED WITH BIRTHERISM IS THERE WAS NO PRICE
TO PAY FOR SPOUTING THAT TYPE OF RHETORIC.
THAT IS WHY IT WAS ONE OF THE VERY DARK CHAPTERS IN REPUBLICAN
HISTORY, NOT JUST MODERN HISTORY, BUT ALL OF REPUBLICAN
HISTORY. WE'RE LIVING IT TODAY, THOUGH,
WHEN YOU SEE GINGRICH TAKE ON MUELLER, A LAW AND ORDER MAN,
WHEN YOU SEE THE LIKES OF LAURA INGRAHAM TAKE ON McMASTER, A
THREE-STAR, PURPLE HEART, SILVER STAR, ACTIVE DUTY SOLDIER.
BUT THERE'S SOMETHING ELSE GOING ON WITH DONALD TRUMP, AND IT'S
THIS. IF BILL CLINTON FELT YOUR PAIN,
DONALD TRUMP FELT YOUR ANGER. BUT BILL CLINTON TOOK THAT
ECONOMIC POPULISM TO BRING PEOPLE TOGETHER, TO BRING THE
COUNTRY TOGETHER, TO BUILD EMPOWERMENT POLICIES FOR PEOPLE.
DONALD TRUMP TURNED IT INTO A CULTURAL POPULISM THAT DIVIDED
THE COUNTRY, AND IT WAS REFLECTED IN THE VERY BEGINNINGS
OF BIRTHERISM THAT HE WAS THE ARCHITECT OF.
>> JONATHAN, ONE OF THE THINGS WE'RE SEEING IN THIS PENCE FOR
PRESIDENT CAMPAIGN -- AND HE IS RUNNING.
I MEAN IT MIGHT NOT BE IN THE NEXT ONE, BUT IT WILL BE IN THE
ONE AFTER THAT. HE'S A MORE DISCIPLINED PERSON,
AND RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT DOES REQUIRE A CERTAIN DISCIPLINE.
AT LEAST IT HAD UNTIL THE LAST CAMPAIGN.
>> RIGHT. >> SO HE'S WORKING IN A VERY
DISCIPLINED WAY ON FUND-RAISING, ACTUALLY RAISING MORE MONEY THAN
DONALD TRUMP IS RAISING. AND IT WOULD MAKE SENSE THAT HE
DO THAT EVEN IF IT WAS IN SUPPORT OF THE TRUMP/PENCE
TICKET. >> RIGHT.
DISCIPLINE IS THE EXACT RIGHT WORD ABOUT MIKE PENCE.
HE COMES FROM THE WORLD OF POLITICS UNLIKE THE BOSS, UNLIKE
PRESIDENT TRUMP. MIKE PENCE CAME FROM THE HOUSE.
HE WAS GOVERNOR OF INDIANA. HE ACTUALLY BELIEVES IN THE
CONSERVATISM THAT HE TALKED ABOUT.
AND SO HE IS VERY STEADIED, VERY MEASURED, AND I THINK IN A LOT
OF WAYS, A LOT MORE DANGEROUS FOR PEOPLE, PARTICULARLY PEOPLE
AT HOME. I THINK FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE
CONCERNED ABOUT THE UNITED STATES' STANDING IN THE WORLD
AND WHETHER, YOU KNOW, WE'RE A TWEET AWAY FROM BOMBING NORTH
KOREA, YOU DON'T HAVE THAT WORRY WITH MIKE PENCE.
YOU HAVE THAT WORRY WITH MIKE PENCE AT HOME.
AND SO IF YOU KNOW THAT THE GUY WHO IS AT THE TOP OF THE TICKET
IS A LITTLE UNSTABLE AND THAT YOU MIGHT BE CALLED IN TO JUMP
IN, WHAT DO YOU DO IF YOU ARE A CONSERVATIVE FROM INDIANA WHO
COMES FROM THE WORLD OF POLITICS AND HAS ALWAYS BEEN ABOUT BEING
READY? YOU GET READY.
>> DAVID, WHAT'S YOUR REACTION TO THAT, THE POSSIBILITY OF MIKE
PENCE MOVING OUT AND GOING FOR THE TOP POSITION?
>> LOOK, YOU NAILED IT AT THE VERY TOP OF THE HOUR.
HE'S RUNNING. THERE'S NO QUESTION.
HE'S THE VICE PRESIDENT. HE'S STILL YOUNG.
HE'S EITHER RUNNING IN '20 OR '24.
BUT LET'S NOT OVERLOOK THE FACT THAT MIKE PENCE IS TAINTED BY
ALL THINGS DONALD TRUMP. EVERY TIME HE STANDS UP AND SAYS
IT'S HIS HIGH HONOR TO INTRODUCE THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED
STATES, THAT MEANS HE IS SUPPORTING THE PRESIDENT OF THE
UNITED STATES. I WILL SAY THIS.
THERE'S GOING TO BE A LOT MORE PEOPLE THAN MIKE PENCE RUNNING
FOR PRESIDENT.

Lawrence On GOP & Birtherism Regrets: 'Better Late Than Never' | The Last Word | MSNBC

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