NYT: Robert Mueller Now Asking White House For Documents | The Last Word

>> MUELLER HAS A GRAND JURY, AND NOW HE WANTS DOCUMENTS.
THIS LATE-BREAKING STORY FROM "THE NEW YORK TIMES" TONIGHT,
FRIDAY. MUELLER'S INVESTIGATORS BEARING
DOWN ON MICHAEL FLYNN'S FINANCIAL TIES ABROAD.
NOW ASKING THE WHITE HOUSE FOR DOCUMENTS RELATED TO FLYNN, AND
THEY'VE QUESTIONED WITNESSES ABOUT WHETHER HE WAS SECRETLY
PAID BY THE TURKISH GOVERNMENT DURING THE FINAL MONTHS OF THE
TRUMP PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN. THIS ACCORDING TO PEOPLE CLOSE
TO THE INVESTIGATION WHO SPOKE WITH THE TIMES TONIGHT.
NOW, THE REQUEST IS REPORTEDLY NOT YET ANY KIND OF FORMAL
SUBPOENA. BUT IT IS TO BE CLEAR A NEW
STEP. QUOTE, THE DOCUMENT REQUEST IS
THE FIRST KNOWN INSTANCE OF
MUELLER'S TEAM ASKING THE WHITE HOUSE TO HAND OVER RECORDS.
PRESIDENT TRUMP'S LAWYERS KNOW THAT ANY RESISTANCE TO THIS
WOULD ONLY SPEED UP MUELLER LEANING ON THE GRAND JURY THAT
EVERYONE'S BEEN TALKING ABOUT FOR SUBPOENAS OR TESTIMONY.
THAT'S THE PROCESS. HERE IS THE ACTUAL CRIMINAL
ISSUE TONIGHT. MUELLER LOOKING AT HOW FLYNN
WORKED WITH A TURKISH-AMERICAN BUSINESSMAN.
FLYNN'S BUSINESS WAS REPORTEDLY PAID $530,000 -- THAT'S A LOT OF
MONEY -- TO RUN A KIND OF A POLITICAL-TYPE CAMPAIGN THAT
WOULD ATTACK THE OPPONENT OF THE CURRENT TURKISH GOVERNMENT.
NOW, THE TIMES WANTS TO KNOW IF THIS WAS A SECRET GOVERNMENT
CONTRACT, AND MUELLER WANTS TO KNOW, QUOTE, IF THE FLYNN INTEL
GROUP MADE KICKBACKS TO THE BUSINESSMEN FOR HELPING CONCEAL
THE SOURCE OF THE MONEY. YOU MAY REMEMBER IF YOU HAVE
WATCHED OUR COVERAGE THAT FLYNN ALREADY VIOLATED THE FEDERAL
RULES ON REGISTERING AS A FOREIGN AGENT.
HE LATER CONCEDED THAT IN ORDER TO UPDATE HIS FILING.
WHAT THIS NEW REQUEST TONIGHT IS ABOUT IS IT SUGGESTS TO US THAT
THE SPECIAL COUNSEL IS FURTHER FOLLOWING THE MONEY.
"THE NEW YORK TIMES" SAYING THAT THESE HIDDEN PAYMENTS COULD
POTENTIALLY BE CONSIDERED FOR FRAUD CHARGES.
ALL THESE DEVELOPMENTS COME AS NBC NEWS CONFIRMED TODAY WITH
THREE SOURCES FAMILIAR WITH THE MATTER THAT BOB MUELLER HAS BEEN
MAKING USE OF MORE THAN ONE ACTIVE GRAND JURY.
THIS IS IN MULTIPLE DISTRICTS, SO THAT INCLUDES VIRGINIA AND
D.C., THE BIG STORY THAT BROKE YESTERDAY.
THOSE GRAND JURIES ARE ISSUING SUBPOENAS FOR RECORDS AND
DOCUMENTS TIED TO THE ONGOING INVESTIGATION.
WE HAVE A LOT TO GET TO TONIGHT. I'M HAPPY TO SAY A STRONG PANEL
TO BEGIN. WALTER DELLINGER.
SAM BUELL IS A PROFESSOR OF LAW AT DUKE UNIVERSITY, A FORMER
FEDERAL PROSECUTOR. LEAD PROSECUTOR IN FACT FOR THAT
ENRON TASK FORCE WHICH HAS SOME OVERLAP WITH SOME OF WHAT
MUELLER IS DOING NOW. AND MICHAEL ISIKOFF, A CHIEF
INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER FOR YAHOO NEWS.
WALTER, FOLKS ARE JUST DIGESTING "THE NEW YORK TIMES" REPORTREPO.
FOLKS AT HOME MY WANT TO UNDERSTAND WHAT DOES IT MEAN
WHEN WE SAY THIS IS ONE OF THE FIRST DOCUMENT REQUESTS THAT
MUELLER HAS SENT TO THE WHITE HOUSE.
>> WELL, IT MEANS A COUPLE OF THINGS.
ONE, I THINK, ARI, IN A LATER SEGMENT, WE'RE GOING TO WONDER
HOW THIS INFORMATION GOT OUT OF THE WHITE HOUSE AND INTO "THE
NEW YORK TIMES." BUT ON THE INFORMATION ITSELF, I
THINK IT SHOWS HOW A GOOD-FAITH PROSECUTOR CANNOT KEEP NARROWLY
TO RUSSIAN INFLUENCE ON THE ELECTION AS HIS MANDATE BECAUSE
THE WHOLE FINANCIAL WEB IS SO INTERCONNECTED.
A PROSECUTOR WHO WANTED TO KNOW WHETHER THERE WERE, FOR EXAMPLE,
RUSSIAN PAYMENTS BEING MADE TO OFFICIALS IN THE CAMPAIGN WOULD
WANT TO SEE IF THERE'S A PATTERN OR PRACTICE WITHIN THE FLYNN
GROUP, FOR EXAMPLE, OF GETTING COVERT PAYMENTS FROM FOREIGN
GOVERNMENTS. SO I THINK IT SHOWS HOW I THINK
THE MONEY CHAIN IS GOING TO BE FOLLOWED, AND IT'S POTENTIALLY
QUITE SERIOUS. >> WELL, YOU RAISE THAT POINT.
AND, SAM, YOU KNOW AS A FORMER PROSECUTOR, BRINGING CHARGES IS
NOT JUST ABOUT CRIMES. THERE ARE A LOT OF UNSOLVED
CRIMES OUT THERE THAT NEVER GET CHARGES.
IT'S ALWAYS ABOUT HAVING EVIDENCE, AND THESE FINANCIAL
CRIMES SEEM TO HAVE A LOT MORE EVIDENCE.
I WANT TO READ TO YOU YOU WHAT COLLEAGUE OF YOURS WHO HAS DONE
THE SAME JOB, PREET BHARARA IS SAYING.
IF TRUE, THE REQUEST FOR WHITE HOUSE DOCUMENTS REGARDING TURKEY
MUCH MORE SIGNIFICANT THAN WHAT HE CALLS BREATHLESS REPORTING
ABOUT THE GRAND JURY. WHY IS THIS SIGNIFICANT, AND HOW
DOES IT RELATE TO THE EVIDENCE TRAIL?
>> WELL, BECAUSE THE MOST IMPORTANT EVIDENCE THAT YOU GET
IN ANY KIND OF COMPLEX CASE LIKE THIS, PARTICULARLY A WHITE
COLLAR CASE, IS THE TESTIMONY OF WITNESSES WHO REALLY KNOW WHAT
HAPPENED, WERE IN THE KEY MEETINGS, HAD CONVERSATIONS WITH
PEOPLE. AND THE WAY THAT YOU GET THAT
TESTIMONY IS YOU BUILD CASES AGAINST THOSE WITNESSES.
PEOPLE ARE NOT GOING TO VOLUNTEER TO TESTIFY IN A CASE
LIKE THIS. I THINK WHAT'S VERY INTERESTING
ABOUT THIS REPORTING IN "THE NEW YORK TIMES" TONIGHT IS IT
SUGGESTS THE POSSIBILITY -- I'M SPECULATING, BUT THE POSSIBILITY
THAT MICHAEL FLYNN IS BEING TARGETED AS A POTENTIAL WITNESS
IN THIS INVESTIGATION. THE STRONGER CASE YOU BUILD
AGAINST HIM, THE MORE LIKELY THAT YOU MIGHT ULTIMATELY OBTAIN
HIS COOPERATION, AND HE MAY KNOW ABOUT LOTS OF OTHER TRANSACTIONS
THAT THE SPECIAL COUNSEL WOULD BE INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT.
>> DOES THAT POTENTIAL HAVE ANY IMPACT ON HOW PROSECUTORS AND
INVESTIGATORS WOULD LOOK AT WHAT JIM COMEY DESCRIBED AS DONALD
TRUMP'S KEEN INTEREST IN GETTING THE DOGS TO BACK OFF OF FLYNN?
>> WELL, I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'VE ALL SAID ALL ALONG WITH
REGARD TO THE POTENTIAL OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE CHARGES
IN THIS CASE THAT THE BACKING OFF ON FLYNN WAS IN PART
POTENTIAL EFFORT ON BEHALF OF THE PRESIDENT TO REDUCE HIS OWN
LEGAL JEOPARDY BECAUSE IT WAS CLEAR FROM THE BEGINNING THAT
FLYNN WAS AN IMPORTANT INDIVIDUAL IN THIS NETWORK, IN
THIS WHOLE FABRIC, AND A POTENTIAL WITNESS.
SO IF, IN FACT, IT DID TURN OUT THAT A CASE WERE MADE, AND NOW
WE'RE SEVERAL STEPS DOWN THE ROAD, BUT IF IT TURNED OUT THAT
A CASE WERE MADE AGAINST FLYNN AND ULTIMATELY HIS TESTIMONY
WERE OBTAINED IN SOME FASHION, WHETHER THROUGH COOPERATION OR
PERHAPS COMPELLING HIM INTO A GRAND JURY AND IMMUNIZING HIM
ULTIMATELY, SOMETHING LIKE THAT, OR EVEN CONVICTING HIM AND THEN
TAKING HIS TESTIMONY, WELL THEN THAT WOULD CERTAINLY CAST THE
OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE CASE AGAINST THE PRESIDENT WITH
REGARD TO ASKING COMEY TO DROP THE INVESTIGATION OF FLYNN IN A
MUCH STARKER LIGHT. >> MICHAEL, WHY IS THIS COMING
OUT NOW? >> WELL, BECAUSE MUELLER IS
STEPPING UP HIS INVESTIGATION. HE'S REQUESTING DOCUMENTS FROM
THE WHITE HOUSE, AND INEVITABLY THAT'S GOING TO COME OUT.
THERE'S TWO POINTS THAT I THINK ARE SIGNIFICANT HERE.
FIRST OF ALL, THE FACT THAT MUELLER IS FOLLOWING THE TRAIL
RELATING TO TURKEY IS NOT THAT BIG OF A SURPRISE GIVEN THAT IF
YOU REMEMBER, ON ELECTION DAY, MICHAEL FLYNN PUBLISHES AN
ARTICLE IN "THE HILL," URGING THE UNITED STATES TO EXTRADITE
ERDOGAN'S MAIN ENEMY, GU LAN, FROM PENNSYLVANIA TO TURKEY.
THAT WAS THE CHIEF GOAL OF THE TURKISH GOVERNMENT.
IN THAT OP-ED, MICHAEL FLYNN WAS NOT IDENTIFIED AS A LOBBYIST FOR
THE TURKISH GOVERNMENT OR A TURKISH-AMERICAN BUSINESSMAN WHO
HAD AN INTEREST IN THIS. IT JUST POPPED.
LATER, YOU KNOW, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTING UNCOVERED HIS TIES TO
THIS TURKISH-AMERICAN BUSINESSMAN WHO HAD CLOSE TIES
TO THE ERDOGAN GOVERNMENT, AND THAT INEVITABLY LED PEOPLE TO
FOLLOW THE MONEY TRAIL AND FOR HIM TO RETROACTIVELY REGISTER AS
A LOBBYIST FOR THE TURKISH GOVERNMENT.
SO IT'S NOT A SURPRISE THAT MUELLER WOULD FOCUS ON THIS.
BUT I THINK IT'S ABSOLUTELY RIGHT THE IMPORTANT THING HERE
IS THE LEVERAGE THAT A CASE ABOUT FLYNN AND TURKEY COULD
GIVE MUELLER IN THE CORE RUSSIA INVESTIGATION.
IF THEY CAN THREATEN FLYNN WITH SERIOUS CRIMINAL CHARGES,
THEY'VE GOT LEVERAGE TO GET HIS COOPERATION, AND THEN HE'S SO
CENTRAL TO EVERYTHING TO DO WITH RUSSIA, INCLUDING THOSE
CONVERSATIONS WITH THE RUSSIAN AMBASSADOR AND INCLU INCLUDING
OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE ALLEGATIONS SINCE, AS YOU NOTED
BEFORE, IT WAS TRUMP'S BRINGING UP AND REQUEST TO COMEY TO LET
FLYNN GO THAT ULTIMATELY LED TO COMEY'S FIRING.
>> RIGHT. THAT'S WHAT WE WERE JUST SAYING.
WALTER, WHAT IS THE THEORY OF THE CASE, THEN, FOR
INVESTIGATORS? THAT FLYNN IS VULNERABLE AND
THAT'S WHY YOU'RE MOVING ON HIM, OR THAT HE MIGHT BE INVOLVED IN
TWO SETS OF CRIMES, SOMETHING ABOUT TURKEY, AND SOMETHING
ABOUT RUSSIA, BUT YOU'RE WILLING TO LET THEM BOTH GO IF HE
COOPERATES. >> YOU KNOW, IT SOUNDS LIKE
BOTH. I THINK SAM AND MIKE MAKE THE
POINT QUITE CONVINCINGLY ABOUT WHY YOU CAN'T CREATE THE RED
LINES THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP SAID HE WANTED TO HAVE TO CONFINE
MUELLER'S INVESTIGATION NARROWLY TO, QUOTE, RUSSIAN INVOLVEMENT.
THAT'S NOT THE WAY PROSECUTORS OPERATE, AS SAM AND MIKE NOTED.
SO I THINK THIS IS A CASE THAT APTLY DEMONSTRATES THAT WHAT THE
PROSECUTOR IS LOOKING AT IS FINANCIAL INFLUENCE ON THOSE WHO
ARE RUNNING THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN. AS SOMEONE WHO BECAME THE
NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER, AND YOU CAN'T ARTIFICIALLY SEPARATE
THAT OUT FROM WHAT CONNECTIONS THERE MIGHT BE WITH RUSSIA.
IT BOTH SHOWS SORT OF MOTIVE AND OPERATION ON FLYNN'S PART
POTENTIALLY, AND IT ALSO PROVIDES THE KIND OF LEVERAGE
THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT. >> ALL OF THIS, MICHAEL, IS
AGAINST A BACKDROP OF INCREASING ATTACKS ON THE ENTIRE SPECIAL
COUNSEL SYSTEM. TAKE A LISTEN HERE TO NEWT
GINGRICH. >> OF COURSE THE WHITE HOUSE
SHOULD BE CONCERNED. FIRST OF ALL, ANYBODY WHO HAS
ANY DOUBTS ABOUT CORRUPTION IN THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT OUGHT TO
READ SIDNEY POWELL'S BOOK "LICENSE TO LIE," WHICH IS A
TREMENDOUS STUDY OF BOTH SENATOR STEPHENS BEING DESTROYED BY THE
JUSTICE DEPARTMENT AND THE WHOLE ENRON/ARTHUR ANDERSEN CASE, BOTH
OF WHICH WERE BASICALLY CORRUPT. I WORRY ABOUT THE GOVERNMENT
HAVING THE KIND OF POWER, AND NOTICE WHAT MUELLER IS DOING.
HE'S CHANGING THE TARGETS. HE WAS SUPPOSEDLY GOING TO LOOK
INTO RUSSIAN COLLUSION. THE ARTICLES THIS MORNING SAY,
GEE, IT LOOKS LIKE RUSSIAN COLLUSION IS GOING TO BE HARD TO
PROVE, MAYBE BECAUSE IT DIDN'T HAPPEN.
>> MICHAEL? >> YOU KNOW, IT IS EXTRAORDINARY
THAT THE PRESIDENT'S ALLIES ARE ATTACKING BOB MUELLER, A FORMER
REPUBLICAN ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL UNDER GEORGE H.W. BUSH'S
ADMINISTRATION, NOMINATED BY PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH AS FBI
DIRECTOR, KEPT ON BY PRESIDENT OBAMA FOR A COUPLE OF YEARS.
I MEAN HE IS AS NON-PARTISAN A FIGURE AS YOU CAN GET.
SO, YOU KNOW, IT SEEMS TO THOSE OF US WHO HAVE FOLLOWED BOB
MUELLER FOR MANY, MANY YEARS HIGHLY UNUSUAL TO HEAR THESE
KIND OF ATTACKS ON HIS INTEGRITY AT THIS POINT.
BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, THIS IS WHAT WHITE HOUSES DO WHEN THEY
ARE FACING SPECIAL COUNSEL INVESTIGATIONS.
THEY GO AFTER THE SPECIAL COUNSEL.
>> WELL, AND YOU SAID HE'S NON-PARTISAN.
SAM, ANOTHER WAY TO PUT IT IS TO THE EXTENT HE HAS HAD
AFFILIATIONS WITH A PARTY, IT'S THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.
THAT'S WHERE HE WAS RISING AS AN APPOINTEE, AT LEAST WHEN HE HAD
TAKEN OVER FBI. I GUESS THE OPPOSITION RESEARCH
IS KICKING AROUND. YOU CAN'T DO THE WHOLE TOPIC
JUSTICE, BUT ANYTHING YOU WANT TO SAY ABOUT THE ENRON TASK
FORCE HERE BECAUSE IT'S SOMETHING THAT REPUBLICANS SEEM
TO THINK IS A KIND OF VULNERABILITY FOR MUELLER.
>> WELL, IT'S IRONIC, ARI, BECAUSE THE ENRON TASK FORCE WAS
CREATED AT THE INSTIGATION OF THE BUSH JUSTICE DEPARTMENT.
JOHN ASHCROFT WAS THE ATTORNEY GENERAL AT THE TIME.
LARRY THOMPSON WAS THE DEPUTY A.G., AND THEY CERTAINLY
CONSULTED WITH THE WHITE HOUSE AS TO HOW THAT CASE OUGHT TO BE
HANDLED. AND THE CONCLUSION WAS, LET'S
HAVE A VERY VIGOROUS TASK FORCE, AND LET'S WALL IT OFF FROM THE
WHITE HOUSE AND LET IT DO ITS JOB NOTWITHSTANDING THE FACT
THAT SOME OF THE TARGETS OF THAT INVESTIGATION HAD BEEN MAJOR
CAMPAIGN CONTRIBUTORS TO THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION.
AND I THINK IT WAS UNDERSTOOD, YOU KNOW, WE NEED TO CUT
OURSELVES OFF FROM THESE PEOPLE AND LET THE LAW RUN ITS COURSE.
AND IT'S JUST, YOU KNOW, WE'RE IN A DIFFERENT WORLD NOW.
YOU KNOW, I UNDERSTAND WHAT MICHAEL IS SAYING ABOUT BEING
SURPRISED, BUT AT A CERTAIN POINT, IT'S NOW AUGUST.
WE'VE BEEN BEING SURPRISED ABOUT THINGS SINCE JANUARY.
THE NORMS ARE OUT THE WINDOW. I MEAN AT SOME POINT WE HAVE TO
START TO ACCEPT THE FACT THAT THIS IS NORMAL -- NOW THE NEW
NORMAL FOR HOW THE WHITE HOUSE IS GOING TO BEHAVE.
I THINK THAT MUELLER'S PEOPLE AND MUELLER HIMSELF CAN BE UNDER
NO ILLUSIONS. THEY ARE GOING TO BE ABSOLUTELY
SAVAGELY ATTACK AT EVERY TURN IN EVERYTHING THEY DO IN THIS
INVESTIGATION. IT'S GOING TO BE THEIR
PROFESSIONALISM -- >> YEAH, YOU'RE SAYING LET'S NOT
ACT SO SURPRISED EVERY NIGHT. IF SOMEONE SHOWS YOU WHO THEY
ARE, BELIEVE THEM. I UNDERSTAND HER TO HAVE MEANT
THAT NEGATIVELY. WALTER, FINAL POINT.
I THINK A LOT OF POINT PEOPLE MAY BE WONDERING ABOUT WHEN IT
IT COMES TO FLYNN'S COOPERATION. I'LL ASK IT AS A HYPOTHETICAL
BECAUSE WE'RE NOT PRESUPPOSING ANYTHING ABOUT WHAT FLYNN WILL
OR WILL NOT DO. IF YOU HAVE SOMEONE WHO HAS
ALREADY LAWYERED UP AND HAS WRITTEN A LETTER SAYING, I HAVE
A STORY TO TELL, WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF A DEAL WAS STRUCK?
YOU TRY TO BRING HIM TO THE GRAND JURY, OR DO YOU TRY TO CUT
A DEAL? HOW WOULD IT WORK?
>> WELL, YOU WOULD MAKE AN AGREEMENT THAT HE WOULD PERHAPS
PLEAD TO LESSER CRIMES THAN THEY MIGHT ULTIMATELY CHARGE IN
EXCHANGE FOR HIS COOPERATION IN PROVIDING TESTIMONY AGAINST
OTHERS, PERHAPS HIS SUPERIOR. AND I THINK THEN HE COULD BE --
YOU KNOW, IF THERE WERE CRIMES COMMITTED IN RELATION TO THE
CAMPAIGN AND THE RUSSIANS, HE COULD BE A DEVASTATINGLY
IMPORTANT WITNESS IF THAT WERE THE

NYT: Robert Mueller Now Asking White House For Documents | The Last Word | MSNBC

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