Fact Checking Congressman Jim Renacci's Claims On GOP Tax Plan | Velshi & Ruhle

>>> WELCOME BACK. WE ARE FOLLOWING BREAKING NEWS.
JUST OVER HALF AN HOUR AGO, THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
NARROWLY APPROVED A $4 TRILLION BUDGET.
>> A HUGE WIN. THE VOTE WAS 216 TO 212 WITH 20
REPUBLICANS VOTING NO. THERE WERE NO DEMOCRATIC YES
VOTES, NOT A SURPRISE. THE VOTE CLEARS A KEY HURDLE
TOWARD THE PRESIDENT'S GOAL OF CUTTING TAXES.
>> JOINING US LIVE NOW IS CONGRESSMAN JIM RENACCI.
HE IS A MEMBER OF THE HOUSE BUDGET COMMITTEE AND THE WAYS
AND MEANS COMMITTEE WHICH IS DRAFTING THE TAX CUT BILL WHICH
IS EXPECTED TO BE UNVEILED NEXT WEEK.
WE ARE HAPPY TO HAVE HIM HERE. MAYBE HE WILL TELL US ABOUT
WHAT'S IN IT. HE WILL LEAVE CONGRESS TO RUN
FOR GOVERNOR OF OHIO NEXT YEAR TO SUCCEED TERM LIMITED
REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR JOHN KASICH. REPRESENTATIVE, GOOD TO SEE YOU.
THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US. >> CONGRATULATIONS.
>> CONGRATULATIONS ON PASSING THE BILL.
TALK TO ME ABOUT THE 20 REPUBLICAN COLLEAGUES WHO VOTED
NO ON THE MEASURE. WHAT ARE THEY CONCERNED ABOUT?
>> OF COURSE, THEY'RE CONCERNED ABOUT THE SPENDING.
IT'S THE SAME THING I HAVE SAID. THE PROBLEM IS THE BUDGET IS
ONLY A BLUEPRINT. IT'S A GIMMICK IN MANY WAYS.
WE HAVEN'T FOLLOWED A BUDGET -- THE BUDGET COMMISSION -- PROCESS
HAS BEEN AROUND SINCE 1974. WE DON'T FOLLOW BUDGETS.
WE BREAK THEM, BOTH REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS END UP BREAKING
THEM. IF WE PASS A BUDGET IN 2011 THAT
BY NOW WOULD HAVE BEEN CLOSE TO BALANCING IF WE WOULD HAVE
FOLLOWED IT. THAT'S THE CONCERN I HAVE.
THAT'S WHY I VOTED FOR IT. THE TRUE GOAL IS TO GET A BUDGET
PASSED TO DO RECONCILIATION AND TAX REFORM.
>> LET'S GET TO TAX REFORM. 51 VOTES IS CERTAINLY AN EASIER
HURDLE THAN 60. IN TRUTH, HOW ARE YOU GOING TO
GET TO 51? WE HAVEN'T SEEN THE LOBBYISTS
ATTACK WASHINGTON, WHICH WE KNOW THEY ARE ABOUT TO DO IN THE NEXT
WEEK. WHEN YOU WANT TO HAVE TAX CUTS
TO THE MAGNITUDE THAT YOU DO, IT'S JUST SIMPLY NOT GOING TO
FLY WITH HUGE PORTIONS IN THE COUNTRY.
THINK ABOUT HIGH STATES LIKE NEW YORK AND NEW JERSEY, CALIFORNIA
AND ILLINOIS, WHO ARE VERY WORRIED ABOUT THE CURRENT PLAN
TO ELIMINATE THE DEDUCTION FOR STATE AND LOCAL INCOME TAXES.
>> I THINK WHAT WE HAVE DO IS LOOK AT THE TAX REFORM PLAN IN
TOTALITY. WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT STATE AND
LOCAL INCOME TAX, 72% OF AMERICANS ACROSS THE COUNTRY DO
NOT ITEMIZE. AFTER WE DOUBLE THE STANDARD
DEDUCTION, IT GOES UP TO 95%. I'M A CPA AS WELL.
>> THAT'S WHY WE LOVE HAVING YOU HERE TO TALK ABOUT THIS.
>> I HAVE DONE MULTIPLE TAX RETURNS.
I CAN TELL YOU, SOME PEOPLE THINK THEY'RE GETTING
DEDUCTIONS. BUT THEY'RE NOT.
THE STANDARD DEDUCTION IS MORE THAN THE ACTUAL EXPENSE.
I THINK WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS MAKE SURE WE GET ALL THOSE
PIECES TOGETHER. WE HAVE TO EXPLAIN IT.
I'M NOT TOO SURE THAT STATE AND LOCAL INCOME TAX -- BY THE WAY,
THIS TAX PLAN IS TO CUT TAXES FOR MIDDLE AMERICANS, NOT THE
WEALTHY. >> THAT'S NOT REALLY WHAT IT
DOES. >> WE LOOKED AT -- WE DON'T HAVE
ENOUGH INFORMATION. WE WOULD LIKE TO GET IT.
HOPEFULLY WE WITNESS GET IT NEXT WEEK.
EVERYTHING IS INDICATING THAT THE TOP 1% GET 80% OF THE
BENEFIT OUT OF THIS TAX PLAN RIGHT NOW.
>> I JUST DON'T AGREE WITH THAT. THE PROBLEM IS -- IT'S SEM AN

SEMANTICS. WHEN YOU REDUCE THAT TAX, OF
COURSE, IT'S GOING TO END UP LOOKING LIKE 1%.
BUT IT'S NOT TRUE. WHEN YOU TAKE A LOOK AT
TAXPAYERS IN GENERAL, AMERICANS WHO PAY ON THE PERSONAL INCOME
TAX, TAKE AWAY THE BUSINESS SIDE, YOU WILL SEE THE GOAL IS
TO GET MIDDLE AMERICAN TAXPAYERS WITH LESS TAXES.
>> CONGRESSMAN, THAT'S AN INTERESTING WAY TO DO THAT.
THAT'S A LITTLE BIT LIKE SAYING IF YOU JUST TAKE AWAY THE FACT
THAT I DON'T HAVE HAIR, I'M NOT REALLY BALD.
>> NO, NO. HERE IS THE OTHER THING.
I HAVE TO EXPLAIN TO YOU, BUSINESS IS BUSINESS.
WE NEED TO COMPETE. WE HAVE THE HIGHEST TAX RATE IN
THE WORLD. >> SIR, WE DON'T.
>> YOU KNOW THAT FULL WELL. YOU KNOW -- I'M SURE YOU HAVE
CORPORATE CLIENTS. YOU KNOW THAT YOU DON'T HAVE A
SINGLE CORPORATE CLIENT THAT PAYS A 35%.
>> SIR, THE FACT THAT YOU ARE A CPA, YOU TALK ABOUT PEOPLE DON'T
GO THROUGH STANDARD -- ITEMIZED DEDUCTIONS, CORPORATIONS DO.
WE CAN LOOK AT THE STATUTORY RATE ALL DAY LONG.
IF YOU FIND ME A FORTUNE 500 WHO BY THE WAY THEIR STOCKS ARE
SOARING, THAT PAY THAT RATE, I WILL EAT MY HAT.
>> YOU DON'T HAVE A HAT. >> THERE'S A REASON WHY -- I
LIKE THE COMMENT. THERE'S A REASON WHY
CORPORATIONS ARE LEAVING AMERICA.
OUR TAX RATE IS TOO HIGH. I TELL EVERYBODY THAT.
WHEN OUR STATUTORY RATE IS 35 AND OTHER COUNTRIES ARE MUCH
LESS LIKE YOU COULD TAKE IRELAND, 11%, PEOPLE WILL GO
THERE. >> WE'RE GOING TO PUT UP A
BOARD. OUR EFFECTIVE RATE AFTER CREDITS
AND DEDUCTIONS IS 18.6%. IT'S NOT ANYWHERE CLOSE TO THE
TOP OF THE WORLD. AS AN ACCOUNTANT, AS A CPA, IF I
WERE A CORPORATE CLIENT AND YOU LOOKED AT MY BOOKS AND SAID, YOU
HAVE TO PAY 35%, YOU KNOW I WOULDN'T USE YOU AGAIN.
RIGHT? >> THE TRUTH IS -- I THINK YOU
SAID 18%. >> 18.6.
>> THE EFFECTIVE RATE IS AROUND 25 OR 26%.
WE'RE STILL NOT COMPETITIVE. >> WE HAVE 18.6.
WE HAVE LOOKED AT THIS MANY TIMES.
I HAVE SPOKEN -- >> THE CONGRESSIONAL BUDGET
OFFICE. >> THEY THOUGHT 18.6 WAS HIGH.
NOBODY SAYS 25%. I WOULD LOVE IF YOU WOULD SEND
ME INFORMATION THAT SAYS THAT. I WILL STUDY IT.
I PROMISE I WILL. >> WE SPENT A BUNCH OF TIME
UNDER CHAIRMAN GOING THROUGH THIS, LOOKING WHERE THE AVERAGE
TAX RATES WERE. WE ENDED UP AT 25, 26% WE CAN'T
COMPETE. IN THE END, LOOK, TAX --
CORPORATIONS DON'T PAY TAXES. I LIKE TO ARGUE THAT POINT.
THEY PASS IT ON TO CONSUMERS. WHICH IS ANOTHER ISSUE.
THERE'S NOT A CORPORCORPORATION THIS COUNTRY THAT PAYS TAXES.
IT'S THE CONSUMER THAT PAYS TAXES.
>> THERE'S NO LEVER THAT'S GOING TO CHANGE THAT.
CORPORATIONS AREN'T GOING TO CHANGE THEIR BEHAVIOR AND STOP
PASSIONING IT ON TO CONSUMERS, BECAUSE YOU GIVE THEM A LOWER
TAX RATE. THEY WILL POCKET THE MONEY.
YOU WILL SEE IT IN DIVIDENDS, IN SHARE BUYBACKS.
THERE'S NO LEVER THAT'S GOING TO SAVE THE CONSUMER.
>> THAT'S WHERE YOU AND I WOULD DIFFER.
I WAS IN THE BUSINESS WORLD FOR 30 YEARS.
I HAD BUSINESSES. I HAD TO ALWAYS WORRY ABOUT MY
QUARTERLY TAX PAYMENTS I. COULDN'T ADD EMEMPLOYEES.
I COULDN'T RAISE WAGES. >> THAT'S NOT THE CASE IN THE
CURRENT CLIMATE. LOOK AT THE STOCK MARKET.
CORPORATE AMERICA IS BOOMING. TODAY IS A HUGE EARNINGS DAY.
WE ARE SEEING EARNINGS OFF THE CHARTS IN LARGE PART BECAUSE OF
LOW INTEREST RATES. THAT'S NOT CHANGING.
>> WE HAVE A CHART UP RIGHT NOW. I KNOW YOU CAN'T SEE IT.
IT'S A CHART OF THE S&P 500 FROM MARCH 9, 2009 TO NOW.
AS YOU ARE FAMILIAR WITH THIS. IT LOOKS LIKE ONE TOOK A RULER
AND DREW A STRAIGHT LINE FROM THE BOTTOM LEFT TO THE TOP
RIGHT. WE HAVE HIGH PROFITABILITY AND
VIRTUALLY FREE MONEY. THOSE ARE THE THINGS THAT WOULD
BE IMPEDIMENTS TO A BUSINESS EXPANDING, RIGHT?
>> THE PRESIDENT -- I SUPPORT HIM IN THIS.
WE'RE CUTTING REGULATIONS. BUSINESSES KNOW WE'RE CUTTING
REGULATIONS. NOW THEY LOOK TO TAX CUTS.
THAT'S WHY THEY'RE GROWING. IF I WAS IN THE BUSINESS WORLD,
I WOULD BE EXCITED. I WOULD BE ADDING EMPLOYEES.
I WOULD BE HAPPY THAT MY REGULATORY BURDEN WAS BEING CUT.
I WOULD START TO SEE A BUSINESS CLIMATE WHERE YOU CAN GROW.
THAT'S NOT THE CASE FOUR YEARS AGO, FIVE YEARS AGO.
>> WHY DID THE STOCK MARKET GO UP FOR SEVEN YEARS?
>> THE STOCK MARKET DROPPED. IF YOU LOOK AT THE EFFECTIVE --
>> PUT IT RIGHT. >> THE STOCK MARKET HAS BEEN
GOING UP SINCE 2009. >> UP STEADILY SINCE MARCH 9,
2009. >> IF YOU TAKE 60 DAYS BEFORE
PRESIDENT OBAMA WAS ELECTED, THE STOCK MARKET TANKED.
>> WHY WOULD YOU TAKE 60 DAYS? NOBODY INVESTS FOR 60 DAYS.
FOCUS ON THIS WALL. I WILL WALK UP TO THIS TO TELL
YOU WHAT'S GOING ON. MY DIRECTOR WILL BE MAD BECAUSE
THE LIGHTING IS NOT GOOD. WHAT I'M SHOWING PEOPLE,
CONGRESSMAN, I'M PUTTING MY HAND AT MARCH 9, 2009.
I WILL TAKE A STRAIGHT EDGE AND DO IT LIKE A LITTLE AIRPORT
THAT'S BEEN TAKING OFF. I WILL JUST KEEP ON GOING WITH
THIS LITTLE AIRPORT. GUESS WHAT?
WE'RE OVER HERE. CONGRESSMAN, IT IS DISINGENUOUS
TO SUGGEST THE STOCK MARKET HAS NOT BEEN GAINING FOR THE LAST
SEVERAL YEARS WHEN WE DIDN'T HAVE CORPORATE TAX CUTS AND WE
DIDN'T HAVE THESE THINGS. GIVE ME THAT.
YOU ARE A CPA. LET'S HAVE AN HONEST
CONVERSATION ABOUT WHAT MAKES CORPORATE PROFITABILITY GO UP,
WHAT MAKES STOCK PRICES GO UP. >> IF YOU LET ME TALK, I WOULD
TELL YOU IF YOU TAKE THAT CHART AND GO BACK ONE MORE YEAR OR A

>> BACK TO 2008. >> YOU WANT ME TO TAKE THIS BACK
TO THE RECESSION? YOU WANT TO BLAME THAT ON TAX
CUTS? >> NO.
I'M TRYING TO TELL YOU, YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT A STOCK MARKET
THAT'S BOOMING. I'M TELLING, YOU ARE TALKING
ABOUT A STOCK MARKET THAT TODAY IS GROWING BECAUSE OF THE
REGULATORY CLIMATE AND BECAUSE NOW THEY REALIZE --
>> WHERE IS THIS GROWTH? >> SIR, SIR, WE NEED TO POINT
SOMETHING OUT. ONE OF THE MAIN REASONS YOU SAW
THE RECESSION, YOU SAW THE CRASH HAPPEN WAS BECAUSE OF LACK OF
REGULATION. BECAUSE THERE WASN'T ENOUGH
REGULATION WE SAW THE SUBPRIME CRISIS HAPPEN.
BECAUSE YOU SAW PREDATORY LENDING PRACTICES.
THOSE PRACTICES WE THEN SAW REGULATION PUT ON SINCE 2008.
BANKS PUT MORE MONEY ON THEIR BALANCE SHEET AND THEY WERE
SAFER. WE HAVE SEEN A STEADY CLIMB IN
THE STOCK MARKET. NOW THE PARTY STARTED WITH
DEREGULATION FORGETTING REGULATION EXISTS TO PROTECT
PEOPLE. IF YOU WANT TO DEREGULATE ACROSS
THE BOARD, GIDDY UP. GUESS WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN?
WE COULD FACE ANOTHER RECKLESS ENVIRONMENT.
>> I WAS IN THE BUSINESS WORLD BACK THEN.
>> SO WAS I. >> THE REGULATORY CLIMATE,
ALTHOUGH THERE WERE REGULATIONS, THE REGULATORS WERE NOT
FOLLOWING THE RULES THEY SHOULD. THAT'S WHY THEY WERE LENDING TO
PEOPLE WHO DIDN'T MEET QUALIFIED LOANS.
THEY WERE LENDING TO PEOPLE BUYING HOUSES AND BUYING HOPES
THEY SHOULD HAVE NEVER DONE. THESE ARE THE ISSUES THAT
OCCURRED BACK THEN. >> .
>> I WAS IN THAT BUSINESS AND IF PEOPLE WERE ACTUALLY BREAKING
THE LAW, THEY WOULD HAVE GONE TO JAIL.
THEY WEREN'T. THE REGULATIONS WEREN'T PUT IN
PLACE. THE REGULATIONS WERE PUT IN
PLACE AFTER 2008. >> WELL, AGAIN, WE CAN DIFFER
ALL WE WANT. I'M A A BIG BELIEVER IN THE FRE
MARKET SYSTEM. >> SO AM I.
>> SO ARE WE. >> I DO BELIEVE WE HAVE TO HAVE
SMART REGULATIONS -- >> SO DO WE.
>> -- BUT WE CAN'T HAVE OVERREGULATIONS.
>> SO DO WE. >> I ALSO BELIEVE WE HAVE TO CUT
CORPORATE TAXES ON AMERICA AND THE MIDDLE CLASS SO THEY CAN
GROW THE ECONOMY AND THE CORPORATIONS HAVE MORE MONEY TO

>> SO WE AGREE ON EVERYTHING. WE'RE IN FAVOR OF REGULATION,
AND WE'RE IN FAVOR OF TAX CUTS FOR THE MIDDLE CLASS.
LET'S AGREE YOU COME BACK TO THIS SHOW AND HAVE
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Fact Checking Congressman Jim Renacci's Claims On GOP Tax Plan | Velshi & Ruhle | MSNBC

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