Sally Yates, Former DOJ Official, Expresses Faith In US Institutions | Morning Joe

PROOF. SAD.
THAT'S FROM PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP.
TALK MORE ABOUT THAT STORY IN A BIT.
>>> FEDERAL JUDGE IN HAWAII HAS ONCE AGAIN BLOCKED PRESIDENT
TRUMP'S LATEST TRAVEL BAN WHICH IS SET TO TAKE EFFECT TODAY.
KEPT OR UPDATED RESTRICTIONS ON FIVE OF THE SIX NATIONS INCLUDED
IN HIS ORIGINAL ORDER, IRAN, LIBYA, SOMALIA, SYRIA.
TOURIST VISAS FROM CHAD AND BLOCKED VISAS FOR GOVERNMENT
OFFICIALS ON BUSINESS OR TOURIST TRAVEL FROM VENEZUELA.
IN THE RULING THE JUDGE SAYS THE BAN, WHICH EFFECTIVELY DENIES
ENTRY TO MORE THAN 150 MILLION PEOPLE, QUOTE, SUFFERS FROM THE
SAME MALADIES AS THE PREVIOUS BAN AND DISCRIMINATES ON
NATIONALITY. THE JUDGE'S RULING DOES NOT
APPLY TO RESTRICTIONS ON VENEZUELA AND NORTH KOREA.
THE WHITE HOUSE IMMEDIATELY CONDEMNED WHAT IT CALLS, QUOTE
ACRES DANGEROUSLY FLAWED RULING SAYING, QUOTE, IT UNDERCUTS THE
PRESIDENT'S EFFORTS TO KEEP THE AMERICAN PEOPLE SAFE AND ENFORCE
MINIMUM SECURITY STANDARDS FOR ENTRY INTO THE UNITED STATES.
THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT ALSO SAYS IT WILL APPEAL THE RULING.
>>> JOINING US NOW, FORMER ACTING ATTORNEY GENERAL AND
DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL SALLY YATES, GIVING THE SPEECH TODAY
AT THE SUMMIT HOSTED BY LAW ENFORCEMENT LEADERS TO REDUCE
CRIME AND INCARCERATION. WE WILL GET INTO THAT IN A
MOMENT. SALLY, GOOD MORNING.
IT'S GOOD TO SEE YOU. FIRST, I WOULD LOVE TO GET YOUR
REACTION TO THIS LATEST RULING ON THE TRAVEL BAN.
>> WELL, GOOD MORNING. AND THANKS FOR HAVING ME.
WELL, I THINK WE'RE ON TRAVEL BAN 3.0 NOW.
AND I MADE MY DECISION ON THE FIRST TRAVEL BAN IN THE EARLY
DAYS WHEN IT EVEN APPLIED TO LAWFUL PERMANENT RESIDENTS AND
VALID VISA HOLDERS WHO LITERALLY WERE MID FLIGHT FOR SOME OF THEM
WHEN THE TRAVEL BAN WAS SIGNED. AND SO I UNDERSTAND, I HAVEN'T
STUDIED 3.0 TO THE SAME DEGREE I DID THE FIRST TRAVEL BAN.
BUT I UNDERSTAND THAT THE JUDGE THERE DETERMINED THAT, AS YOU
SAID, IT SUFFERED FROM SOME OF THE SAME MALADIES IN TERMS OF
WHAT THE ACTUAL INTENT WAS. >> I THINK THERE HAVE BEEN, AS
YOU SAID, SO MANY VERSIONS OF THIS AND SO MANY RULINGS ON IT
THAT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE HAVE SORT OF LOST TRACK AS TO WHERE
IT STANDS. DO YOU BELIEVE AT THE END OF THE
DAY THE PRESIDENT'S IDEA OF A TRAVEL BAN OR SOME VERSION OF IT
WILL, IN FACT, BE INSTATED HERE IN THE U.S.?
>> YOU KNOW, IT'S HARD FOR ME TO KNOW.
AGAIN I WAS FOCUSED ON THE FIRST TRAVEL BAN.
>> RIGHT. >> THAT WAS INCREDIBLY BROAD.
AND I'M NOT SURE THERE ARE A WHOLE LOT OF FOLKS OUT THERE
THAT WOULD CREDIBLY ARGUE TODAY THAT IMPOSING A TRAVEL BAN ON
PEOPLE WHO HAVE VALID GREEN CARDS WITHOUT ANY KIND OF
PROCEDURE WOULD REALLY PASS CONSTITUTIONAL MUSTER.
NOW I KNOW THERE'S BEEN A LOT MORE WORK ON THIS.
THERE'S A LOT MORE OF A NATIONAL SECURITY BASIS THAT'S LAID OUT
AND THIS TRAVEL BAN. AND THERE'S ACTUALLY BEEN A
PROCESS NOW THAT DID NOT EXIST FOR THE FIRST TRAVEL BAN.
AND, ACTUALLY CONSULTING WITH NATIONAL SECURITY AGENCIES.
SO I GUESS WE'LL JUST HAVE TO WAIT AND SEE WHEN I ASSUME
TRAVEL BAN THREE ULTIMATELY MAKES ITS WAY TO THE SUPREME
COURT AS WELL. >> JON MEACHAM?
>> CURIOUS NINE MONTHS IN WHAT GRADE YOU WOULD GIVE THE
RESILIENCY OF THE RULE OF LAW IN OCTOBER OF 2017 AS OPPOSED TO,
SAY, OCTOBER 2016. >> WELL, FIRST, I THINK I
MENTIONED TO YOU BEFORE, JON, I DON'T THINK I'VE EARNED BEING
CALLED GENERAL FOR TEN DAYS AS ACTING ATTORNEY GENERAL.
>> BUT IT'S GOING TO BE A GREAT MINISERIES.

I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THAT, GENERAL.
>> THERE YOU GO. >> JON MEACHAM WON A PULITZER
PRIZE AND HAD A PHOTOGRAPHER UNDER HIS BED TAKING PICTURES
WHEN HE GOT THE NEWS. SO, QUITE GRANDIOS.
ANYWAY, GENERAL, I'M SORRY TO INTERRUPT, GENERAL.
GO AHEAD, GENERAL. >> THERE'S GOING TO BE A LOT OF
GENERALS THIS MORNING. WELL, YOU KNOW, I'VE WRITTEN AND
TALKED ABOUT THIUT THIS A LITTL. I'M VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THE
STATE OF THE RULE OF LAW. YOU KNOW, OUR WHOLE CRIMINAL
JUSTICE SYSTEM AND, INDEED, CORNERSTONE OF OUR FORM OF
GOVERNMENT IS THE RULE OF LAW, THE CONCEPT THAT THE LAWS APPLY
EQUALLY TO EVERYONE. AND NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW AND,
LIKEWISE, THAT THE LAW IS NOT USED AS A SWORD TO GO AFTER YOUR
POLITICAL ENEMIES EITHER. AND HISTORICALLY, THROUGH BOTH
DEMOCRATIC AND REPUBLICAN ADMINISTRATIONS, THAT'S BEEN --
THERE WAS A WALL BETWEEN THE WHITE HOUSE AND THE JUSTICE
DEPARTMENT. WHEN IT COMES TO CRIMINAL
INVESTIGATIONS AND PROSECUTIONS. I UNDERSTAND A LOT OF FOLKS
MIGHT SAY THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT IS PART OF THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH
SO WHAT'S WRONG WITH THE PRESIDENT TELLING DOJ WHO THEY
SHOULD BE PROSECUTING? WELL THERE'S A WHOLE LOT WRONG
WITH THAT. AND NOT ONLY DOS IT IMPACT THE
RULE OF LAW BUT IT IMPACTS THE PUBLIC'S CONFIDENCE AND WHETHER
OR NOT OUR CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM IS BEING USED AS A
POLITICAL TOOL. AND WE'VE SEEN THAT,
UNFORTUNATELY, OVER AND OVER AGAIN WITH THIS PRESIDENT.
>> BUT, SALLY, FOLLOWING UP ON JON MEACHAM'S QUESTION, HAVEN'T
THERE BEEN, AT CRITICAL TIMES WHEN I'M SURE YOU, MYSELF AND
OTHERS HAVE WORRIED ABOUT THE RULE OF LAW, HAVE WORRIED ABOUT
CHECKS AND BALANCES, HAVEN'T THERE BEEN TIMES WHERE WE HAVE
BEEN PLEASANTLY SURPRISED, THAT FEDERAL JUDGES HAVE STEPPED UP?
REPUBLICAN FEDERAL -- APPOINTED JUDGES HAVE STEPPED UP AND
STOPPED A PERNICIOUS ACT OR EVEN JEFF SESSIONS RECUSING HIMSELF
AND ROD ROSENSTEIN AT A CRITICAL MOMENT INNT IN THESE FIRST FEW S
STEPPING FORWARD AND SAYING I'M GOING TO APPOINT ROBERT MUELLER?
OBVIOUSLY THERE ARE THINGS THAT CONCERN ALL OF US ABOUT
AUTOCRATS IN TRAINING. AT THE SAME TIME THERE ARE SOME
BRIGHT SPOTS, AREN'T THERE, ABOUT OUR SYSTEM ACTUALLY
HOLDING, LET'S JUST SAY, CONSTITUTIONALLY HOLDING SERVE?
>> ABSOLUTELY. I ACTUALLY THINK THAT THERE ARE
A LOT OF BRIGHT SPOTS AND YOU CERTAINLY IDENTIFIED SOME OF
THEM THERE. OUR INSTITUTIONS ARE HOLDING.
AND THERE ARE CAREER MEN AND WOMEN AT THE DEPARTMENT OF
JUSTICE. IN FACT, THE VAST MAJORITY OF
FOLKS AT DOJ ARE CAREER PROSECUTORS AND CAREER LAWYERS.
AND THEY'RE HOLDING IN THIS. SO, THE ISSUE IS NOT WHETHER THE
RULE OF LAW HAS ACTUALLY BEEN SUBVERTED BUT WHETHER THE
PRESIDENT HAS ATTEMPTED TO DO THAT.
YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT FOR LACK OF TRYING ON HIS PART.
>> RIGHT. >> AND, YOU KNOW, THAT'S
IMPORTANT FROM A PUBLIC CONFIDENCE STANDPOINT AS WELL.
IF THEY SEE THE PRESIDENT ATTEMPTING TO USE DOJ AS A TOOL,
THAT REALLY UNDERMINES THE PUBLIC'S CONFIDENCE IN THE
CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM, WHETHER HE IS ULTIMATELY SUCCESSFUL IN
THAT OR NOT. >> SALLY, IT'S KATTY KAY HERE.
YOU'VE BEEN WATCHING, OF COURSE, THE RUSSIA INVESTIGATION.
WHEN YOU LOOK AT WHO HAS BEEN INTERVIEWED SO FAR, WHAT
DOCUMENTS HAVE BEEN LOOKED AT, WHO HAS BEEN HIRED BY THE
SPECIAL PROSECUTOR, HOW DO YOU RATE THE CHANCES OF BOB MUELLER
BRINGING CRIMINAL CHARGES AGAINST ANYBODY?
>> I DON'T THINK I'M GOING TO BE LAYING ODDS ON THAT.
I HAVE TREMENDOUS CONFIDENCE IN BOB MUELLER, THE CONSUMMATE
PROFESSIONAL. IF ANYBODY CAN GET TO THE BOTTOM
OF THIS, CAN HE. I'M JUST GOING TO STAY OUT OF
THE WAY SO HE CAN DO HIS JOB. >> SALLY, LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT
THE REASON YOU'RE THERE IN WASHINGTON, TALK ABOUT CRIMINAL
JUSTICE REFORM. WE'VE HAD AN EXPLODING PRISON
POPULATION OVER THE LAST 30 YEARS OR SO THANKS IN LARGE PART
TO THE WAR ON DRUGS AND MANDATORY SENTENCING.
VIOLENT CRIME IS AT NEAR HISTORIC LOWS.
HOW DO WE SQUARE THOSE TWO THINGS?
HOW DO WE GET SOME OF THOSE PEOPLE WHO HAVE COMMITTED MINOR
DRUG OFFENSES TO NOT SPEND LARGE PORTIONS OF THEIR LIFE INSIDE A
UNITED STATES PRISON? >> WELL, YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY
RIGHT, WILLIE. YOU KNOW, WE HAVE 5% OF THE
WORLD'S POPULATION, BUT YET 25% OF ITS PRISONERS.
WE HAVE SEEN OUR OVERALL PRISON POPULATION GO FROM ABOUT HALF A
MILLION BACK IN THE EARLY '80s TO 2.2 MILLION TODAY.
AND THAT COMES WITH REALLY SIGNIFICANT COST BECAUSE EVERY
TLAR THAT WE'RE SPENDING INCARCERATING SOMEONE,
PARTICULARLY, FOR EXAMPLE, A LOWER LEVEL NONVIOLENT DRUG
OFFENDER FOR LONGER THAN THEY NEED TO BE THERE FOR PUBLIC
SAFETY PURPOSES IS A DOLLAR THAT WE DON'T HAVE TO ADDRESS THE
EMERGING CRIME THREATS ACROSS THE COUNTRY, A DOLLAR THAT WE
DOESN'T HAVE TO HELP OUR STATE AND LOCAL PARTNERS AND A DOLLAR
WE DON'T HAVE, IMPORTANTLY, FOR CRIME PREVENTION AND RECIDIVISM
REDUCTION PROGRAMS. BACK IN THE OBAMA
ADMINISTRATION, WE REALLY WERE PUSHING VERY HARD FOR SENTENCING
REFORM. YOU KNOW, IT'S ONE OF THE FEW
ISSUES IN WASHINGTON ON WHICH THERE IS TRULY BIPARTISAN
SUPPORT. THIS IS NOT JUST A LEFTY
DEMOCRATIC THING. YOU HAVE EVERYBODY FROM THE KOCH
BROTHERS TO THE ACLU WHO RECOGNIZE THAT WE REALLY NEED TO
ADJUST OUR APPROACH TO HOW WE'RE USING INCARCERATION IN THIS
COUNTRY. AND THAT'S WHAT THESE OVER 200
LAW ENFORCEMENT LEADERS FROM ACROSS THE COUNTRY AND WHEN I
SAY LAW ENFORCEMENT LEADERS I'M TALKING ABOUT POLICE CHIEFS AND
SHERIFF'S AND PROSECUTORS, DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS, ALL
OF WHOM ARE UNITED IN OUR CONCLUSION THAT IF WE TRULY CARE
ABOUT THE SAFETY OF OUR COMMUNITIES, WE HAVE TO ADJUST
OUR APPROACH TO INCARCERATION. >> YOU'RE STILL RIGHT.
LEFTIES, LEFT WING EXTREMISTS LIKE MARK HOLDEN AND DAVID AND
CHARLES CAN KOCH BEHIND THIS AS STRONGLY AS ANYTHING, AS WELL AS
MANY PEOPLE ON THE LEFT. IT'S FANTASTIC.
WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO RUN FOR SOMETHING?
>> I HAVE TO TELL YOU, YOU KNOW, I'VE NEVER BEEN DRAWN TO THE
IDEA OF ELECTIVE OFFICE. >> WELL, THIS ISN'T ABOUT WHAT
YOU WANT. THIS IS ABOUT WHAT AMERICA
NEEDS. JUST REMEMBER THAT.
>> WELL, YOU KNOW, I HOPE THAT SOME DAY MAYBE I'LL HAVE ANOTHER
OPPORTUNITY FOR PUBLIC SERVICE. ELECTED OFFICE, I'M HAVING A
HARD TIME SEEING BUT WE'LL SEE, I SUPPOSE.
>> ALL RIGHT. FANTASTIC.
SALLY YATES, THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US.
GREATLY APPRECIATE IT. >> THANK YOU.
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Sally Yates, Former DOJ Official, Expresses Faith In US Institutions | Morning Joe | MSNBC

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