The Terrifying Reach Of Fake News Online

I WAS THINKING THOUGH, YOU HAVE THE NORMALIZATION COMING
FROM SOME ON THE RIGHT, AN ORGANIZATION LIKE MEDIA MATTERS,
YOU ARE THE PRESIDENT OF, YOU HAD A LONG SPAN WHERE OBAMA WAS
PRESIDENT, NOW YOU HAVE THIS YEAR WITH TRUMP, WHAT IS YOUR
STANDARD OPERATING PROCEDURE NOW?
>> THE CORE CRITIQUE IS THE SAME, MISINFORMATION IS BAD, AND
SPECIFICALLY THAT IT ISN'T JUST THAT MISINFORMATION IS AN
ACCIDENT, FOR A WHILE ORIGINALLY AND FOR MUCH OF OUR MISSION IT
WAS ABOUT THAT THERE WAS AN INTENTIONAL EFFORT TO MISINFORM,
TO POISON THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA, AND IT USED TO BE A JUST A BUNCH
OF RIGHT-WING ACTORS, THEY WOULD BULLY THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA INTO
PICKING UP THEIR SLANT.
THAT'S THE PART THAT'S RADICALLY
DIFFERENT IS THAT IT'S MORE COMPLICATED AND CONFUSING, YOU
HAVE RUSSIAN ACTIVE MEASURES PARTICIPATING TO SOME EXTENT,
AND I THINK A LOT OF THAT STORY GETS OVERBLOWN IN TERMS OF WHEN
IT GETS REPORTED ON THEY AREN'T GETTING TO THE IMPLICATIONS OF
IT, BUT TO TAKE A STEP BACK AND IT PLAIN HOW IT FITS TOGETHER IS
WE DID A LOT EARLY ON TO LOOK AT WHAT IS THE FAKE NEWS PROBLEM,
WHAT DO THEY MEAN WHEN THEY TALK ABOUT THAT?
I THERE IS A
FRAMEWORK THAT HELPS UNDERSTAND, A LOT OF IT IS COMING TO THESE
ONLINE COMMUNITIES LIKE 4CHAN, THEY ARE CREATING AND DRIVING A
LOT OF WHAT BECOME NARRATIVES, THEN A SECOND LAYER OF
STORYTELLERS WHICH ARE LARGELY WEBSITES NOT DESIGNED FOR
IDEOLOGICAL PURPOSES BUT JUST TO GET VIRAL TRAFFIC, AND WE FOUND
AN ASYMMETRY COME ON FACEBOOK ALONE CONSERVATIVE LEANING SITES
ARE 2.5 TIMES THE SIZE OF LEFT LEANING ONES.
IF YOU THINK ABOUT
HOW SOME OF THAT FITS INTO THE FAKE NEWS PROBLEM, THAT'S HOW
YOU CAN HAVE A LOT OF THESE STORIES GO VIRAL AND HAVE THE
SATURATION THEY DO, IS BECAUSE THERE'S THIS CONSTELLATION OF
IDEOLOGICAL COMMUNITIES, AND IF YOU LOOK AT THAT FRAMEWORK IT
DOESN'T JUST EXPLAIN HOW THE FAKE NEWS PROBLEM CAME IN, THEN
YOU CAN SEE WHERE BOTS AND OTHER FORMS OF MANIPULATION ARE A
FACTOR.
SO FOR ME THE MISSION IS HOW DO WE MONITOR THIS IN A WAY
THAT'S JUST CHASING EVERY FACT, IT'S 10% NOT 12%, BUT WHAT CORE
NARRATIVES ARE COMING OUT AND HOW DO THEY INFLUENCE THE
BROADER CONVERSATION?
AND LASTLY WHAT KINDS OF DATA AND
INFORMATION DO WE NEED TO GIVE TO PLATFORMS TO GET THEM TO ONE
RECOGNIZE THE PROBLEM AND START TO PUT IN PLACE SOLUTIONS THAT
AREN'T CENSORSHIP DRIVEN BUT RATHER LOOKING AT, SAY, THE
CHEATING AND THE MANIPULATIONS, THAT'S REALLY THE BIGGEST SHIFT
IS SPENDING MORE TIME ON MESSAGE BOARDS THAN SAY FOX NEWS IN A
WAY, BUT IT MATTERS MORE.
IF YOU GO BACK, I CAN'T TELL YOU HOW
MANY TIMES YOU CAN TRACE SPECIFIC FOX NEWS SEGMENTS OR
EVEN DONALD TRUMP TWEETS TO A 4CHAN THREAD FROM TWO DAYS AGO.
>>IT DISSEMINATES FOR A COUPLE DAYS, AND THEN IT HITS.
>>EXACTLY, TUCKER CARLSON AND PEOPLE LIKE THAT SOLICIT
SEGMENTS FROM THEM.
IT USED TO BE THE CASE THAT THESE
RIGHT-WING PLACES ARE THE VANGUARD BUT NOW THEY ARE JUST
REPACKAGING THESE STORIES FOR AN AUDIENCE THAT ISN'T USING 4CHAN.
>> ARE THESE THE PLACES WHERE THERE IS A REVERBERATION OF
THESE MESSAGES -- IS IT MORE POWERFUL THAN FOX NEWS, CNN,
MSNBC PUT TOGETHER?
>>WITHOUT A DOUBT, AND IT'S REFLECTED IN EVERYTHING A
METRIC.
IN THE LAST CYCLE STARTING IN THE SUMMERTIME FOR
THE FIRST TIME EVER THE AGGREGATE CONSUMPTION OF THIS
HYPER IDEOLOGICAL AND FABRICATED STORIES EXCEEDED THE TOTAL
CONSUMPTION ON SOCIAL MEDIA FROM ALL OF THE MAINSTREAM SITES
COMBINED.
AND WE HAD TO BE GENEROUS IN THAT ANALYSIS AND
INCLUDE PLACES LIKE PEOPLE JUST SO IT WASN'T SO DEPRESSING THAT
WE ALL WANT TO QUIT.
THAT THE LANDSCAPE, THEY ARE INCREDIBLY
POWERFUL FORCES, AND THAT'S NOT TO SAY THEY ARE ALL BAD, THIS
TECHNOLOGY ALLOWS FOR NEW DISTRIBUTION SYSTEMS AS WELL,
THERE ARE HUGE ADVANTAGES, BUT THAT ASYMMETRY IS A PROBLEM.
AND
ONE LAST PIECE I THINK IS MOST STARTLING OF ALL, IN THE LAST
CYCLE THOSE THAT IDENTIFIED IS LEFT OF CENTER, ALMOST 1 OUT OF
EVERY TWO PEOPLE THAT IDENTIFIED LEFT OF CENTER DID NOT POST A
SINGLE THING RELATED TO POLITICS OR CIVIC ENGAGEMENT ON THEIR
SOCIAL MEDIA FEEDS, THAT NUMBER IS ONLY 8% ON THE CONSERVATIVE
SIDE.
WHICH IS A TESTAMENT TO WIN SOMETHING ON THE LEFT GOES
VIRAL OR THEY DO HAVE AN AUDIENCE, IT SHOWS THEY ARE
OVERCOMING NOT JUST THE DISTRIBUTION ASYMMETRY BUT A PER
DISSIPATION GAP. AND FOR ME OUR MISSION NOW IS AS MUCH ABOUT
UNDERSTANDING WHAT IS HAPPENING WITH THOSE COMMUNITIES AND
LANDSCAPES AND THE STRUCTURAL PIECES AROUND IT AS IT IS ABOUT
SOUNDING THE ALARM ABOUT THAT ONE STAT, BECAUSE EVERY SINGLE
ASSUMPTION ABOUT GETTING BACK TO POWER, ABOUT POLITICAL
ORGANIZING, IS BASED ON THE IDEA THAT IF THEY JUST HAD THE RIGHT
MESSAGE OR THE BEST DIGITAL STRATEGY THEY WILL FIND THE
PEOPLE.
AND IF MORE AND MORE OF THOSE PEOPLE WHO IDENTIFY AS
LEFT OF CENTER ARE TUNING OUT, HOW DO YOU GET THEM BACK INCOME
HOW DO YOU MARKET TO THEM OR PULL THEM IN IF THEY ARE
DISENGAGING, BECAUSE THEY JUST DON'T WANT TO BE ABUSED BECAUSE
OF THE LANDSCAPE --
>>I WOULDN'T HAVE GUESSED IT WAS THAT HIGH.
>>IT'S A SCARY STATISTIC, AND I SEE THAT IS A BIG PIECE OF OUR
CORE MISSION IS AS MUCH ABOUT UNDERSTANDING IT AND WHAT IS
GOING INTO THESE COMMUNITIES AND HOW THEY ARE SORT OF CREATING
NOT JUST THE ASYMMETRY BETWEEN THE DISSED ABUSE AND PLATFORMS
BUT EVEN BETWEEN PARTICIPATION, AND WHAT DO WE NEED TO DO TO
START TO DEAL WITH IT?
>>THAT'S EXTRAORDINARY.
WE HAVE A LOT OF STUFF TO DO --
>> THE STEREOTYPE IS THAT EVERYBODY JUST WANTS TO GET OUT,
THEY ARE TALKING AND ALL THAT, BUT THAT'S A HUGE GAP BETWEEN
PROGRESSIVES AND
NON-PROGRESSIVES.
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The Terrifying Reach Of Fake News Online

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