George Papadopoulos May Be Lower-Level In Trump Campaign, But Is Significant | Morning Joe

RUCKER AND PETER BAKER. >> PHILLIP, YOU STARTED THIS
MESS A COUPLE DAYS AGO REPORTING ON THE PRESIDENT IN MELTDOWN
MODE. OF COURSE, THE TIMES ALSO WROTE
ABOUT IT. WE'LL TALK TO PETER IN A SECOND.
ALSO "VANITY FAIR" YESTERDAY HAD REPORTS.
A LOT OF REPORTS CONFIRMING THE SAME THING, THAT THIS PRESIDENT
IS IN A VERY BAD PLACE. UNFORTUNATELY FOR HIM, AND THE
COUNTRY. AND ALSO A LOT OF PEOPLE IN THE
WHITE HOUSE FEELING THE WALLS STARTING TO SORT OF MOVE IN ON
THEM. >> YEAH.
JOE, I THINK MELTDOWN MODE MIGHT BE A LITTLE STRONG.
BUT ON MONDAY WE REPORTED IN THE MUELLER RUSSIA PROBE, THE
PRESIDENT WAS LATE GETTING TO WORK.
HE WAS HOLED UP IN HIS RESIDENCE WATCHING TELEVISION, CONCERNED
ABOUT THE DOOINLTS TALKING TO HIS LAWYERS.
HE WAS FRUSTRATED. HE WAS ANGRY WITH THE TONE OF
THE MEDIA COVERAGE. HE FELT LIKE HE HAD BEEN
CONNECTED TO PAST MISDEEDS THAT PAUL MANAFORT AND RICK GATES DID
BEFORE THEY JOINED THE CAMPAIGN AND WAS UPSET BY THAT.
THAT'S THE STATE OF MIND HE'S BEEN IN.
WE KNOW RUSSIA -- THERE'S AN ISSUE THAT KEEPS COMING BACK AND
BOTHERS HIM. HE SEES IT AS AN EFFORT TO ILL
LEGITIMIZE HIS PRESIDENCY. >> PETER BAKER, FIRST, LET'S
LOOK AT THE PRESIDENT'S LOGIC SAYING YOU CAN'T BE MAD AT ME,
BECAUSE PAUL MANAFORT COMMITTED ALL OF THESE FEDERAL CRIMES, AND
WAS ENGAGED IN ALL OF THESE NEFARIOUS ACTIVITIES BEFORE I
SELECTED HIM TO RUN MY CAMPAIGN AND TAMPER WITH THE RNC'S
PLATFORM IN CLEVELAND. IT DOESN'T SEEM TO BE A VERY
COMPELLING ARGUMENT, I CAN'T BE BLAMED FOR HIRING THE GUY THAT
COMMITTED ALL THESE CRIMES BEFORE ME.
>> WELL, LOOK, HIS POINT IS THAT THESE CRIMES DIDN'T HAVE
ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE CAMPAIGN.
THAT'S TRUE. THEY ARE ABOUT LOBBYING..
THEY'RE ABOUT PAUL MANAFORT'S ACTIONS GOING BACK A DECADE IN
TERMS OF HIS SERVICE FOR A PRO RUSSIAN UKRAINIAN POLITICAL
PARTY. THE FUTURE PRESIDENT OF THE
UNITED STATES DID PUT IN CHARGE OF HIS PARTY SOMEBODY WE SEE
ACCORDING TO THIS INDICTMENT, WAS A HIGHLY PAID AGENT FOR
FOREIGN INTERESTS THAT WERE PRO RUSSIAN.
>> AND NOW, PETER -- >> WHAT DID PAUL MANAFORT DO AS
CAMPAIGN CHAIRMAN TO HELP RUSSIAN POLICY.
WE DON'T KNOW. HE DID SIT IN A MEETING.
THERE MAY BE ANOTHER SHOE TO DROP.
McCAIN SAID THIS IS A CENTIPEDE. >> THIS CUTS ANOTHER WAY AS
WELL. IF MUELLER IS GOING AFTER THE
PAST BUSINESS DEALINGS THAT PREDATED THE CAMPAIGN OF PAUL
MANAFORT, THEN AS "VANITY FAIR" WAS TOLD YESTERDAY, OBVIOUSLY
EVERY ONE OF JARED KUSHNER'S PAST BUSINESS DEALINGS AND
DONALD TRUMP'S PAST BUSINESS DEALINGS ARE ALSO NOW BEING
EXAMINED MOST LIKELY BY MUELLER. >> WELL, THAT COULD BE.
WE DON'T KNOW THAT ROBERT MUELLER IS GIVING THE FULL
FORENSIC TREATMENT TO EVERY BUSINESS DEAL THE PRESIDENT OR
JARED KUSHNER EVER HAD. THE PAUL MANAFORT ISSUES WERE
UNDER INVESTIGATION BEFORE ROBERT MUELLER CAME INTO THE
SCENE. HE INHERITED AN ONGOING
INVESTIGATION. THAT DOESN'T NECESSARILY
TRANSLATE TO THE IDEA THAT EVERYTHING NOW IS UP FOR GRABS
FOR THE PRESIDENT AND JARED KUSHNER, BUT THAT IS A CONCERN
THEY MIGHT HAVE. YOU HEARD THE PRESIDENT SAY THIS
SUMMER, HE SAID THERE IS A LINE TO BE DRAWN AS FAR AS HE WAS
CONCERNED NATURE ROBERT MUELLER LOOKING INTO HIS FAMILY'S PERSON
FINANCES OUTSIDE OF THE CONTEXT OF RUSSIA WOULD BE A STEP TOO
FAR BEYOND A RED LINE, HE SAID. NOW, HE'S CALLED THE RHETORIC
DOWN ON MUELLER EVER SINCE. HE'S NOT BEEN MAKING THREATS TO
FIRE HIM. HE'S BEEN CAREFUL AT THE URGING
OF HIS LAWYER TO NOT DIRECTLY TAKE ON BOB MUELLER.
THAT COULD CHANGE. HE HAS A WAY OF DECIDING TO DO
DIFFERENT THINGS AT DIFFERENT POINTS.
>> CAN YOU DESCRIBE FOR US AND OUR VIEWERS THE CIRCUMSTANCES
UNDER WHICH THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES CALLED THE NEW
YORK TIMES TO TALK TO YOU AND MAGGIE TO REFUTE THE REPORTING
OF PHIL RUCKER? >> WELL, HE DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING
BAD ABOUT PHIL. HE DID CALL.
I THINK HE'S FRUSTRATED WITH THE IDEA THAT HE'S SORT OF ANGRY AND
THROWING THINGS AT A WALL. HE DIDN'T LIKE THE QUOTE IN THE
POST'S STORY THAT HE'S MAD AT EVERYBODY.
HE SAYS I'M NOT MAD AT ANYBODY. THAT MAY BE A LITTLE MUCH, BUT
HE WAS IN A GOOD MOOD. I THINK HIS POINT WAS I CAN BE
ANNOYED BUT IT DOESN'T CONSUME ME.
I'M ABLE TO FOCUS ON OTHER THINGS.
THE ECONOMY IS GOING WELL. I'M FOCUSSED ON MY TAX PLAN AND
THE SELECTION OF FED CHAIR. HE EVEN SAID I'M LOOKING FORWARD
TO THE TRIP TO ASIA. IT MIGHT BE A STRETCH.
I DON'T THINK ANYBODY GOING ON THE TRIP IS NECESSARILY LOOKING
FORWARD TO IT. IT'S A 12-DAY GRIND, BUT HIS
POINT WAS DISPELLING THE WHITE HOUSE UNDER SIEGE.
I THINK HE'S GROWN FRUSTRATED AT THAT IDEA.
IT'S NOT HELPFUL TO HIM POLITICALLY.
HE TALKED TO MY COLLEAGUE, MAGGIE HABERMAN TO TRY TO DISPEL
THAT POINT OF VIEW. >> WHAT DO DO WE THINK OF THIS
EFFORT, WHAT LOOKS LIKE AN EFFORT TO DISCREDIT
PAPADOPOULOS? IT DOES SEEM THIS MAY BE THE
MORE TROUBLING DEVELOPMENT FOR THE PRESIDENT THAT PAPADOPOULOS
IS COOPERATING AND WHAT WE'VE LEARN SOD FAR DOES NOT LOOK GOOD
IN THAT HE'S SAYING IN THAT MEETING WITH TRUMP HE SAID DO
YOU WANT TO HAVE A MEETING WITH THE RUSSIANS AND THE PRESIDENT
DIDN'T SHOOT IT DOWN. THAT KIND OF FLIES RIGHT IN THE
FACE OF THE PRESIDENT'S LONG-TIME CONVENTION THAT HE
KNEW OF NO CONTACTS BETWEEN HIS CAMPAIGN AND THE RUSSIANS.
>> YEAH. IT'S OBVIOUSLY A CONCERN, AND IT
WAS OBVIOUSLY A SURPRISE. IN FACT, I THINK THERE WAS SOME
RELIEF IN SOME WAYS IN THE WHITE HOUSE WHEN THEY FIRST SAW
MANAFORT AND GATES INDICTMENT. EVERYBODY KNEW THIS WAS COMING.
EVEN MY 12-YEAR-OLD SAID IT WAS GOING TO BE MANAFORT.
EVERYBODY KNEW IT WAS GOING TO BE MAN FORT.
BECAUSE THE CHARGES DIDN'T EXTEND TO THE CAMPAIGN, THEY
DIDN'T MENTION PRESIDENT TRUMP'S NAME, THERE WAS A RELIEF.
PAPADOPOULOS WAS A TWO BY FOUR TO THE HEAD.
HE'S BEEN COOPERATING FOR MONTHS.
YOU LOOK AROUND NOW. YOU'RE WONDERING WHO IN THE ROOM
MIGHT NOT BE ON YOUR SIDE ANYMORE.
IS IT POSSIBLE SOMEBODY IN THE ROOM IS EVEN WEARING A WIRE?
THOSE THOUGHTS HAVE GONE THROUGH THE HEADS OF PEOPLE IN MR.
TRUMP'S CIRCLE. BUT THEY'RE NOT WRONG HE WAS NOT
A CENTRAL FIGURE IN THE CAMPAIGN, SO WHEN THEY TRY TO
SAY HE WAS A LOWER LEVEL OFFICIAL, THERE'S SOME TRUTH.
THE QUESTION IS WHETHER HE KEPT PEOPLE HIGHER UP IN THE CHAIN OF
COMMAND IN THE KNOW AND WHAT THEY DID WITH IT AND WHAT THEY
DID WITH THIS LEGAL DOCUMENT IS THEY KIND OF HINTED AT THAT
WITHOUT PUTTING OUT ALL THE EVIDENCE THEY HAVE.
WE'RE WAITING FOR THE NEXT SHOE TO DROP AND TO LEARN MORE ABOUT
WHO GEORGE PAPADOPOULOS ENGAGED WITH, AND WHAT THEY DID INSIDE
THE CAMPAIGN ONCE THEY HAD THE INFORMATION.
>> PHILLIP, THANK YOU. THEY'RE SAYING PAPADOPOULOS
WASN'T A MAJOR PLAYER. LET'S GO BACK TO "THE WASHINGTON
POST" AND SAY ONE OF YOUR FIRST MAJOR EDITORIAL BOARD MEETINGS
WAS AT "THE WASHINGTON POST" AND THERE YOU NAMED HIM --
>> EXCELLENT GUY -- >> A SMALL GROUP OF FOREIGN
POLICY ADVISERS. WASN'T THAT IN JUNE OF '16?
IT WAS PRETTY FAR INTO THE CAMPAIGN.
HE NAMED GEORGE PAPADOPOULOS, I THINK THAT WAS THE SECOND NAME
AS A FOREIGN POLICY ADVISER. >> PAPADOPOULOS WAS NAMED WITH A
NUMBER OF OTHER ADVISERS. LET'S PUT IT IN CONTEXT FOR A
MINUTE. THIS WAS A MOMENT IN THE
CAMPAIGN WHERE MOST ESTABLISHED SEASONED REPUBLICAN FOREIGN
POLICY EXPERTS HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH DONALD TRUMP.
THEY WANT WANT TO WORK FOR THIS CAMPAIGN.
THEY SHUNNED HIS CANDIDACY. JEFF SESSIONS WAS THE TOP POLICY
FIGURE ON THE CAMPAIGN AND HELPED PUT TOGETHER THIS TEAM OF
ADVISERS, PAPADOPOULOS WAS ONE OF THEM.
MOST PEOPLE IN THE FOREIGN POLICY COMMUNITY HAD NEVER HEARD
OF HIM. HIS CREDENTIALS WERE PRETTY
WEEK, BUT TRUMP BOASTED ABOUT HIM AND SAID HE'S AN EXCELLENT
GUY AND NAMED HIM AS A POLICY ADVISER AND THEN HAD THE MEETING
WITH HIM IN WASHINGTON. IT'S CORRECT HE WAS NOT A
CENTRAL FIGURE ON THE CAMPAIGN. WE NEVER REALLY SAW HIM ON THE
CAMPAIGN TRAIL. HE WASN'T AT RALLIES THE WAY
STEVEN MILLER WAS. BUT HE WAS ON THE CAMPAIGN.
>> THANK YOU SO MUCH. WASHINGTON POST PHILLIP RUCKER.
WE APPRECIATE IT. >>> SAM, LET'S LOOK.
THEY HAVE A PATTERN. PRESIDENT ESPECIALLY HAS A
PATTERN. PAUL MANAFORT, THEY SAY HE WAS
JUST HERE FOR A MINUTE OR TWO WHEN DONALD TRUMP AND JARED
KUSHNER AND EVERYBODY ELSE INVOLVED IN THAT CAMPAIGN TOLD
EVERYBODY IN THE MEDIA THIS GUY IS GOING TO HELP US GET THE
NUMBER THAT WE NEED TO GET OVER THE TOP.
THAT'S ALL THEY TALKED ABOUT IN THE SUMMER OF 2016 THAT THEY HAD
TO GET RID OF COREY LEWANDOWSKI BECAUSE CORY DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO
COUNT DELEGATES. THEY WERE BRINGING IN THE PRO.
THE PRO WAS PAUL MANAFORT, AND HE WAS CRITICAL TO GET DONALD
TRUMP OVER THE TOP. >> SURE.
>> NOW THEY'RE SAYING NOTHING TO SEE HERE.
SAME THING AGAIN WITH GEORGE PAPADOPOULOS.
SAYING HE WAS A CRITICAL PART OF HIS FOREIGN POLICY TEAM IN 2016
WHEN ALL OF THIS ACTIVITY WAS TAKING PLACE, BY THE WAY.
IT'S NOT TAKING PLACE NOW. >> YEAH.
WE NEED TO UNPACK A FEW THINGS. ONE, I WAS WONDERING THE SAME
THING. WE LOOKED AT THE DAILY BEAST,
LOOKED INTO GEORGE PAPADOPOULOS TO SEE HOW CRITICAL A ROLE HE
PLAYED IN THE CAMPAIGN. I CALLED HIGH SCHOOL CLASSMATES,
COLLEGE CLASSMATES, COLLEGE PROFESSORS, CAMPAIGN PROS,
PEOPLE IN REPUBLICAN CIRCLES, PEOPLE ON THE BEN CARSON
CAMPAIGN. THE TRUTH OF THEOF THE MATTER I.
HE IS ALMOST UNIVERSALLY UNMEMORABLE.
NO ONE KNOWS THIS GUY. HE CAME OUT OF NOWHERE.
HIS COLLEGE PROFESSORS SAY HE WASN'T VERY BRIGHT.
>> HOW DID HE GET ON THE CAMPAIGN?
>> HE ENDS UP IN D.C. AFTER GOING TO DEPAUL UNIVERSITY.
WORKS AND IS A SELF-PROMOTER. MANAGES TO FIND HIS WAY ONTO BEN
CARSON'S CAMPAIGN. THAT'S HOW DID HIS CAMPAIGN
PLUCK THIS GUY OUT OF THE AIR? SAM CLOVE US, IOWA GUY,
POLITICIAN WAS ASKED TO PUT TOGETHER A LIST OF FOREIGN
POLICY OFFICIALS DONALD TRUMP COULD SAY WAS ADVISING HIM
BECAUSE DONALD TRUMP WAS GETTING QUESTIONS.
SAM PUTS TOGETHER THE LIST. ON THE LIST IS CARTER PAGE AND
GEORGE PAPADOPOULOS. TRUMP SITS DOWN, CALLS
PAPADOPOULOS A WELL REGARDED OIL AND GAS GUY.
NO ONE IS QUITE SURE WHY. IN THAT MOMENT, HE ATTACHES
HIMSELF TO PAPADOPOULOS. >> IS HE AN OIL AND GAS GUY?
>> NO ONE ACTUALLY KNOWS. >> WAS HE VOCALLY PRO
FRACKING -- >> IF HE WERE, YOU WOULD KNOW.
>> CORRECT. >> THIS IS CRITICAL.
JUST BECAUSE PAPADOPOULOS ISN'T A WELL KNOWN ENTITY DOESN'T MEAN
TEST NOT IMPORTANT. >> ON THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN, IT IS
CLEAR. HE WAS SENDING E-MAILS AND
SAYING WE HAVE RUSSIAN OFFICIALS THAT WANT TO MEET WITH YOU.
JUST BECAUSE PAPADOPOULOS CAME FROM NOWHERE, DOESN'T MEAN THE
E-MAILS AREN'T IMPORTANT. >> WHERE WAS JOHN DEAN?
I'M SURE HE HAS -- >> YEAH.
>> WHAT I'M SAYING IS SOMEONE YOU DON'T KNOW BEFORE SOMETHING
BLOWS UP DOESN'T MEAN THEY DON'T BECOME A KEY PLAYER.
>> I THINK THE BIGGER PICTURE IS --
>> I'M SURE JOHN DEAN WENT TO OXFORD AND THEN HARVARD.
>> HE WENT TO THE LONDON UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF ECONOMICS.
WE COULDN'T FIGURE OUT IF THAT WAS TRUE.
THE POINT IN THE END IS TRUMP HAS THIS PROBLEM WHICH IS WHILE
HE IS A NONESTABLISHMENT CANDIDATE AND THAT HELPS HIM, IT
HURS HIM BECAUSE HE DOESN'T HAVE PEOPLE WHO ARE GOOD AT THEIR
JOBS SURROUNDING HIM
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George Papadopoulos May Be Lower-Level In Trump Campaign, But Is Significant | Morning Joe | MSNBC

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