Inside The Courtroom: Jury Finds Paul Manafort Guilty On 8 Counts | MTP Daily

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FORMER PROSECUTOR, D.O.J.'S TAX DIVISION.
DIVISION. POINT IS WE'VE GOT THIS COVERED
POINT IS WE'VE GOT THIS COVERED FROM SO MANY DIFFERENT ANGLES
FROM SO MANY DIFFERENT ANGLES BUT LET'S BEGIN WITH KEN
BUT LET'S BEGIN WITH KEN DILANIAN.
DILANIAN. KERNGS EIGHT COUNTS GUILTY, TEN
KERNGS EIGHT COUNTS GUILTY, TEN COUNTS MISTRIAL.
COUNTS MISTRIAL. WALK ME THROUGH WHAT MORE DO WE
WALK ME THROUGH WHAT MORE DO WE HAVE ON THE TEN COUNTS THAT
HAVE ON THE TEN COUNTS THAT THERE WASN'T A CONSENSUS AND
THERE WASN'T A CONSENSUS AND WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN NEXT?
WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN NEXT? >> WELL, FIRST, I'LL TELL YOU
>> WELL, FIRST, I'LL TELL YOU CHUCK THAT PAUL MANAFORT SHOWED
CHUCK THAT PAUL MANAFORT SHOWED NO REACTION.
NO REACTION. HE WAS STONE-FACED.
HE WAS STONE-FACED. NOR DID HIS WIFE, AFTER THE
NOR DID HIS WIFE, AFTER THE VERDICT.
VERDICT. PROSECUTORS SHOOK HANDS WITH ONE
PROSECUTORS SHOOK HANDS WITH ONE ANOTHER AND THE JUDGE ADMONISHED
ANOTHER AND THE JUDGE ADMONISHED THE JURY THAT THEY DID NOT HAVE
THE JURY THAT THEY DID NOT HAVE TO TALK TO THE PRESS IN THE WAKE
TO TALK TO THE PRESS IN THE WAKE OF THERE VERDICT.
OF THERE VERDICT. PROSECUTORS GOT A LITTLE OF
PROSECUTORS GOT A LITTLE OF EVERYTHING HERE.
EVERYTHING HERE. NOT A 100% VICTORY FOR THE
NOT A 100% VICTORY FOR THE PROSECUTION BUT THEY GOT FIVE
PROSECUTION BUT THEY GOT FIVE COUNTS OF TAX FRAUD, THEY GOT
COUNTS OF TAX FRAUD, THEY GOT ONE COUNT OF FAILING TO FILE A
ONE COUNT OF FAILING TO FILE A FOREIGN BANK ACCOUNT REPORT, AND
FOREIGN BANK ACCOUNT REPORT, AND TWO COUNTS OF FRANK FRAUD, ANDBA
TWO COUNTS OF FRANK FRAUD, ANDBA APPEARED THAT THE JURY WENT
APPEARED THAT THE JURY WENT THROUGH METICULOUSLY THROUGH THE
THROUGH METICULOUSLY THROUGH THE EVIDENCE AND THEY LATCHED ON TO
EVIDENCE AND THEY LATCHED ON TO TWO OF THE STRONGER BANK FRAUD
TWO OF THE STRONGER BANK FRAUD CHARGES WHERE THERE ARE
CHARGES WHERE THERE ARE DOCUMENTABLE LIES.
DOCUMENTABLE LIES. IN ONE CASE PAUL MANAFORT
IN ONE CASE PAUL MANAFORT DOCTORED A PROFIT AND LOSS
DOCTORED A PROFIT AND LOSS STATEMENT TO DEFRAUD A BANK TO
STATEMENT TO DEFRAUD A BANK TO GET LOANS AT A TIME WHEN HE WAS
GET LOANS AT A TIME WHEN HE WAS BADLY IN NEED OF QUASH.
BADLY IN NEED OF QUASH. THIS JURY WAS SUPER THOUGHTFUL
THIS JURY WAS SUPER THOUGHTFUL IT APPEARS IN THEIR
IT APPEARS IN THEIR DELIBERATIONS AND EARLIER TODAY
DELIBERATIONS AND EARLIER TODAY THEY TOLD THE JUDGE THEY WERE
THEY TOLD THE JUDGE THEY WERE UNABLE TO REACH CONSENSUS ON A
UNABLE TO REACH CONSENSUS ON A NUMBER OF COUNTS.
NUMBER OF COUNTS. THE JUDGE ASKED THEM TO GO BACK
THE JUDGE ASKED THEM TO GO BACK AND DELIBERATE THEY TRIED FOR
AND DELIBERATE THEY TRIED FOR ABOUT FOUR HOURS WERE UNABLE TO
ABOUT FOUR HOURS WERE UNABLE TO DO IT AND SO THE JUDGE DECLARED
DO IT AND SO THE JUDGE DECLARED A MISTRIAL.
A MISTRIAL. THE GOVERNMENT CAN TRY PAUL MAN
THE GOVERNMENT CAN TRY PAUL MAN FRLT ON THE TEN COUNTS.
FRLT ON THE TEN COUNTS. HE'S FACING AS YOU KNOW, ANOTHER
HE'S FACING AS YOU KNOW, ANOTHER TRIAL IN WASHINGTON, D.C. NEXT
TRIAL IN WASHINGTON, D.C. NEXT MONTH THAT CARRIES EVEN MORE
MONTH THAT CARRIES EVEN MORE PRISON TIME.
PRISON TIME. >> DANIEL GOLDMAN, I'LL GO TO
>> DANIEL GOLDMAN, I'LL GO TO YOU, AND NOT JUST BECAUSE YOU'RE
YOU, AND NOT JUST BECAUSE YOU'RE STANDING NEXT TO KEN.
STANDING NEXT TO KEN. EXPLAIN THIS TO ME.
EXPLAIN THIS TO ME. IF YOU'RE THE PROSECUTOR ARE YOU
IF YOU'RE THE PROSECUTOR ARE YOU HAPPY?
HAPPY? DOES THIS FEEL LIKE A SOLID WIN?
DOES THIS FEEL LIKE A SOLID WIN? >> LOOK, IT'S NOT A RESOUNDING
>> LOOK, IT'S NOT A RESOUNDING VICTORY BUT IT IS A DEFINITE
VICTORY BUT IT IS A DEFINITE VICTORY AND IN PARTICULAR FOR
VICTORY AND IN PARTICULAR FOR THE REASON KEN SAID.
THE REASON KEN SAID. BECAUSE THE JURY SOMEWHAT
BECAUSE THE JURY SOMEWHAT UNUSUALLY AND ATYPICALLY PICKED
UNUSUALLY AND ATYPICALLY PICKED AND CHOSE AMONG THE DIFFERENT
AND CHOSE AMONG THE DIFFERENT TYPES OF CHARGES WHAT THEY
TYPES OF CHARGES WHAT THEY CONVICTED HIM OF, THE
CONVICTED HIM OF, THE PROSECUTION WILL BE ABLE TO
PROSECUTION WILL BE ABLE TO ARGUE THAT THE SENTENCING JUDGE
ARGUE THAT THE SENTENCING JUDGE HERE SHOULD CONSIDER ALL OF THE
HERE SHOULD CONSIDER ALL OF THE CONDUCT THAT HE WAS CHARGED WITH
CONDUCT THAT HE WAS CHARGED WITH BECAUSE THERE'S A LESSER
BECAUSE THERE'S A LESSER STANDARD.
STANDARD. SO FROM THE PROSECUTION'S
SO FROM THE PROSECUTION'S STANDPOINT IT IS BETTER TO HAVE
STANDPOINT IT IS BETTER TO HAVE SOME BANK FRAUD CHARGES OF WHICH
SOME BANK FRAUD CHARGES OF WHICH HE WAS CONVICTED, SOME FOREIGN
HE WAS CONVICTED, SOME FOREIGN BANK ACCOUNT REPORTS, AND HE GOT
BANK ACCOUNT REPORTS, AND HE GOT ALL THE TAX FRAUD.
ALL THE TAX FRAUD. SO THE FACT THAT THEY DRIBBLED
SO THE FACT THAT THEY DRIBBLED IT THROUGH THE INDICTMENT IS
IT THROUGH THE INDICTMENT IS ACTUALLY HELPFUL TO THE
ACTUALLY HELPFUL TO THE PROSECUTION AND ALSO SHOWS THAT
PROSECUTION AND ALSO SHOWS THAT IN EACH OF THEIR DIFFERENT
IN EACH OF THEIR DIFFERENT GROUPS OF CHARGES THAT THEY WERE
GROUPS OF CHARGES THAT THEY WERE JUSTIFIED AND THEY WERE
JUSTIFIED AND THEY WERE LEGITIMATE BECAUSE THE JURY
LEGITIMATE BECAUSE THE JURY CONVICTED ON AT LEAST SOME OF
CONVICTED ON AT LEAST SOME OF THEM.
THEM. >> KEN, DO WE HAVE A SENSE ON
>> KEN, DO WE HAVE A SENSE ON THE OTHER TEN?
THE OTHER TEN? WAS IT 9-3, 10-2, 11-1, 6-6?
WAS IT 9-3, 10-2, 11-1, 6-6? WHAT KIND OF -- DO WE HAVE A
WHAT KIND OF -- DO WE HAVE A SENSE ON THE OTHER TEN IF IT WAS
SENSE ON THE OTHER TEN IF IT WAS MOST OF THEM WERE LEANING ONE
MOST OF THEM WERE LEANING ONE WAY OR THE OTHER?
THAT HAPPEN?
THAT HAPPEN? >> I DEFER TO MY LEGAL EXPERT.
>> I DEFER TO MY LEGAL EXPERT. >> I RAN OUT OF THE -- THEY SET
>> I RAN OUT OF THE -- THEY SET A DATE.
A DATE. I THINK IT WOULD NORMALLY BE IN
I THINK IT WOULD NORMALLY BE IN ABOUT THREE MONTHS.
ABOUT THREE MONTHS. I KNOW THEY DID SET A DATE AND
I KNOW THEY DID SET A DATE AND WE'LL GET THAT FOR YOU IN A
WE'LL GET THAT FOR YOU IN A MINUTE, CHUCK.
MINUTE, CHUCK. WE JUST RAN OUT OF THE
WE JUST RAN OUT OF THE COURTROOM.
COURTROOM. >> WHAT IS THE MAXIMUM -- THE
>> WHAT IS THE MAXIMUM -- THE SENTENCING GUIDELINES.
SENTENCING GUIDELINES. WE HAVE EIGHT COUNTS HERE.
WE HAVE EIGHT COUNTS HERE. IF THE MAX WAS HIT ON ALL OF
IF THE MAX WAS HIT ON ALL OF THEM, WHAT ARE WE LOOKING AT
THEM, WHAT ARE WE LOOKING AT HERE?
HERE? >> SO I WAS TRYING TO DO I ROUGH
>> SO I WAS TRYING TO DO I ROUGH ROUGH CALCULATION WITH KEN HERE.
ROUGH CALCULATION WITH KEN HERE. IF HE WAS CONVICTED OF
IF HE WAS CONVICTED OF EVERYTHING, THE BEST CALCULATION
EVERYTHING, THE BEST CALCULATION FOR THE PROSECUTION WOULD BE
FOR THE PROSECUTION WOULD BE ABOUT 11 TO 14 MONTHS -- SORRY,
ABOUT 11 TO 14 MONTHS -- SORRY, 11 TO 14 YEARS.
11 TO 14 YEARS. >> ON EACH COUNT?
>> ON EACH COUNT? >> NO, TOTAL.
>> NO, TOTAL. >> OKAY.
>> OKAY. >> THE WAY THE SENTENCING
>> THE WAY THE SENTENCING GUIDELINES WORK IS THEY GROUP
GUIDELINES WORK IS THEY GROUP ALL THE COUNTS TOGETHER SO THERE
ALL THE COUNTS TOGETHER SO THERE WILL ONLY BE ONE GUIDELINE RANGE
WILL ONLY BE ONE GUIDELINE RANGE FOR THE WHOLE INDICTMENT.
FOR THE WHOLE INDICTMENT. AND THE WAY I ROUGHLY CALCULATED
AND THE WAY I ROUGHLY CALCULATED IT IS THAT FOR EVERYTHING HE WAS
IT IS THAT FOR EVERYTHING HE WAS SUSCEPTIBLE TO HERE IT WOULD BE
SUSCEPTIBLE TO HERE IT WOULD BE 11 TO 14 YEARS.
11 TO 14 YEARS. THE PROSECUTION WILL ARGUE THAT.
THE PROSECUTION WILL ARGUE THAT. IF YOU JUST LOOK AT THE COUNTS
IF YOU JUST LOOK AT THE COUNTS OF CONVICTION, MY ROUGH ESTIMATE
OF CONVICTION, MY ROUGH ESTIMATE IS ABOUT SEVEN TO NINE YEARS.
IS ABOUT SEVEN TO NINE YEARS. THAT THE GUIDELINE RANGE WOULD
THAT THE GUIDELINE RANGE WOULD BE.
BE. AND THEN THE JUDGE IS FREE TO
AND THEN THE JUDGE IS FREE TO VARY FROM THAT HOW HE WISHES.
VARY FROM THAT HOW HE WISHES. AND OFTEN IN WHITE COLLAR CASES
AND OFTEN IN WHITE COLLAR CASES JUDGES GO BELOW THE GUIDELINES.
JUDGES GO BELOW THE GUIDELINES. >> AND CHUCK, I DON'T HAVE TO
>> AND CHUCK, I DON'T HAVE TO TELL YOU THE BIG QUESTION NOW IS
TELL YOU THE BIG QUESTION NOW IS OBVIOUSLY LOOKING AT WHAT
OBVIOUSLY LOOKING AT WHAT HAPPENED WITH MICHAEL COHEN
HAPPENED WITH MICHAEL COHEN TODAY WHAT WILL PAUL MANAFORT
TODAY WHAT WILL PAUL MANAFORT DO?
DO? WILL HE CONTINUE TO FIGHT THIS
WILL HE CONTINUE TO FIGHT THIS CASE?
CASE? THIS LEGAL DEFENSE MUST BE
THIS LEGAL DEFENSE MUST BE COSTING HIM MILLIONS OF DOLLARS.
COSTING HIM MILLIONS OF DOLLARS. WILL HE GO FORWARD WITH A TRIAL
WILL HE GO FORWARD WITH A TRIAL IN WASHINGTON, D.C. WHERE THE
IN WASHINGTON, D.C. WHERE THE PENALTIES ARE EVEN HIGHER, THE
PENALTIES ARE EVEN HIGHER, THE EVIDENCE IS EVEN MORE VOLUME
EVIDENCE IS EVEN MORE VOLUME NOUS, OR WILL HE CUT HIS LOSSES,
NOUS, OR WILL HE CUT HIS LOSSES, CUT A DEAL AND TELL WHAT HE
CUT A DEAL AND TELL WHAT HE KNOWS IF ANYTHING ABOUT
KNOWS IF ANYTHING ABOUT POTENTIAL COLLUSION BETWEEN

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Inside The Courtroom: Jury Finds Paul Manafort Guilty On 8 Counts | MTP Daily | MSNBC

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