Axios Asks: How Involved Was President Donald Trump With Russia? | Morning Joe

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FORMER TREASURY OFFICIAL AND
FORMER TREASURY OFFICIAL AND "MORNING JOE" ECONOMIC ANALYST
"MORNING JOE" ECONOMIC ANALYST STEVE RATTNER, ALSO CO-FOUNDER
STEVE RATTNER, ALSO CO-FOUNDER AND CEO OF AXIOS JIM VANDEHEI.
AND CEO OF AXIOS JIM VANDEHEI. JIM, YOUR ONE BIG THING THIS
JIM, YOUR ONE BIG THING THIS MORNING IS WHAT WE KNOW ABOUT
MORNING IS WHAT WE KNOW ABOUT TRUMP RUSSIA AND I ACTUALLY READ
TRUMP RUSSIA AND I ACTUALLY READ YOUR NEWSLETTER YESTERDAY
YOUR NEWSLETTER YESTERDAY MORNING, AS I ALWAYS DO, OF
MORNING, AS I ALWAYS DO, OF COURSE, THERE ARE THREE THINGS
COURSE, THERE ARE THREE THINGS THAT MY TEN-YEAR-OLD SON AND I
THAT MY TEN-YEAR-OLD SON AND I DO EVERY SUNDAY MORNING, WE READ
DO EVERY SUNDAY MORNING, WE READ YOUR AXIOS LIST AND OF COURSE WE
YOUR AXIOS LIST AND OF COURSE WE GO TO CHURCH, AND THEN WE THROW
GO TO CHURCH, AND THEN WE THROW THE BALL AROUND TALKING ABOUT
THE BALL AROUND TALKING ABOUT THE AXIOS LIST BECAUSE -- BUT
THE AXIOS LIST BECAUSE -- BUT YESTERDAY WAS AMAZING AND I
YESTERDAY WAS AMAZING AND I ACTUALLY DID A THREAD WHERE I
ACTUALLY DID A THREAD WHERE I ACTUALLY QUOTED SEVERAL OF YOUR
ACTUALLY QUOTED SEVERAL OF YOUR TAKE A WAYS.
TAKE A WAYS. IT WAS SO EFFECTIVE THAT
IT WAS SO EFFECTIVE THAT ACTUALLY WIKILEAKS CAME BACK AND
ACTUALLY WIKILEAKS CAME BACK AND ATTACKED ME FOR MAKING THESE,
ATTACKED ME FOR MAKING THESE, WHAT THEY CLAIM, FALSE CLAIMS
WHAT THEY CLAIM, FALSE CLAIMS WHEN, IN FACT, IT LOOKS LIKE
WHEN, IN FACT, IT LOOKS LIKE EVERYTHING YOU GUYS NAILED DOWN
EVERYTHING YOU GUYS NAILED DOWN ABOUT WHAT WE KNOW SO FAR IS
ABOUT WHAT WE KNOW SO FAR IS PRETTY DAMNING FOR THE
PRETTY DAMNING FOR THE PRESIDENT.
PRESIDENT. >> AMAZING.
>> AMAZING. >> WE TALK IN ANTICIPATION WITH
>> WE TALK IN ANTICIPATION WITH WHAT MUELLER WILL HAVE IN HIS
WHAT MUELLER WILL HAVE IN HIS REPORT AND WHAT I WAS TRYING TO
REPORT AND WHAT I WAS TRYING TO POINT OUT IS JUST WHAT YOU KNOW
POINT OUT IS JUST WHAT YOU KNOW IS EXTRAORDINARILY DAMNING.
IS EXTRAORDINARILY DAMNING. LIKE WE NOW KNOW THAT MORE THAN
LIKE WE NOW KNOW THAT MORE THAN A HALF DOZEN PEOPLE AROUND TRUMP
A HALF DOZEN PEOPLE AROUND TRUMP HAD CONTACTS WITH THE RUSSIANS.
HAD CONTACTS WITH THE RUSSIANS. IT WASN'T JUST A HALF DOZEN
IT WASN'T JUST A HALF DOZEN PEOPLE, YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT
PEOPLE, YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT HIS ELDEST SON, HIS CAMPAIGN
HIS ELDEST SON, HIS CAMPAIGN MANAGER, HIS LAWYER AND CLOSEST
MANAGER, HIS LAWYER AND CLOSEST BUSINESS CONFIDANT, FLYNN WHO
BUSINESS CONFIDANT, FLYNN WHO WAS EASILY HIS TOP ADVISER
WAS EASILY HIS TOP ADVISER THROUGHOUT THAT CAMPAIGN.
THROUGHOUT THAT CAMPAIGN. SO IN ALL OF THESE PEOPLE HAD
SO IN ALL OF THESE PEOPLE HAD THESE MEETINGS ENTHUSIASTICALLY,
THESE MEETINGS ENTHUSIASTICALLY, MOST OF THEM THEN LIED ABOUT IT
MOST OF THEM THEN LIED ABOUT IT AND NOW WE KNOW THAT THERE WAS
AND NOW WE KNOW THAT THERE WAS BUSINESS DEALINGS, NEGOTIATIONS
BUSINESS DEALINGS, NEGOTIATIONS GOING ON BETWEEN COHEN AND THE
GOING ON BETWEEN COHEN AND THE KUGSS FOR A PROPERTY IN MOSCOW
KUGSS FOR A PROPERTY IN MOSCOW THAT EVEN AFTER THAT THESE
THAT EVEN AFTER THAT THESE CONTACTS CONTINUED, THAT THE
CONTACTS CONTINUED, THAT THE U.S. INTELLIGENCE APPARATUS CAME
U.S. INTELLIGENCE APPARATUS CAME TO A UNANIMOUS CONCLUSION,
TO A UNANIMOUS CONCLUSION, EVERYONE EXCEPT FOR TRUMP SAID
EVERYONE EXCEPT FOR TRUMP SAID UNDOUBTEDLY THE RUSSIANS WERE
UNDOUBTEDLY THE RUSSIANS WERE TRYING TO INFLUENCE THE U.S.
TRYING TO INFLUENCE THE U.S. ELECTION, EVEN AFTER THAT YOU
ELECTION, EVEN AFTER THAT YOU STALE HAD A LOT OF CONTACTS
STALE HAD A LOT OF CONTACTS BETWEEN RUSSIA AND THIS
BETWEEN RUSSIA AND THIS ADMINISTRATION, INCLUDING JARED
ADMINISTRATION, INCLUDING JARED KUSHNER, AT LEAST HAVING
KUSHNER, AT LEAST HAVING CONVERSATIONS ABOUT CREATING A
CONVERSATIONS ABOUT CREATING A SECRET BACK CHANNEL DURING THE
SECRET BACK CHANNEL DURING THE TRANSITION WITH THE RUSSIANS.
TRANSITION WITH THE RUSSIANS. THEN IT CONTINUED EVEN INTO THE
THEN IT CONTINUED EVEN INTO THE WHITE HOUSE.
WHITE HOUSE. SO HAD WE NOT HAD THE DRIP,
SO HAD WE NOT HAD THE DRIP, DRIP, DRIP OFFER THE LAST TWO
DRIP, DRIP OFFER THE LAST TWO YEARS AND YOU READ ALL OF THAT
YEARS AND YOU READ ALL OF THAT IN A STORY YOU WOULD SAY THAT IS
IN A STORY YOU WOULD SAY THAT IS ARGUABLY THE MOST CONSEQUENTIAL
ARGUABLY THE MOST CONSEQUENTIAL STORY IN MODERN PRESIDENTIAL
STORY IN MODERN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORY BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO GO
HISTORY BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO GO BACK TO WHO IS RUSSIA?
BACK TO WHO IS RUSSIA? IT'S AN ENEMY OF THE UNITED
IT'S AN ENEMY OF THE UNITED STATES.
STATES. GO BACK TO 2012, MITT ROMNEY,
GO BACK TO 2012, MITT ROMNEY, THE NUMBER ONE GEOPOLITICAL
THE NUMBER ONE GEOPOLITICAL THREAT TO THE UNITED STATES OF
THREAT TO THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS RUSSIA AND EVERY
AMERICA IS RUSSIA AND EVERY SINGLE REPUBLICAN
SINGLE REPUBLICAN ENTHUSIASTICALLY AGREED WITH
ENTHUSIASTICALLY AGREED WITH THAT.
THAT. AND THAT'S WHAT'S SO STRIKING
AND THAT'S WHAT'S SO STRIKING ABOUT WHAT WE ALREADY KNOW FROM
ABOUT WHAT WE ALREADY KNOW FROM MUELLER AND WHAT WE KNOW IS HE
MUELLER AND WHAT WE KNOW IS HE KNOWS A LOT MORE THAN WHAT WE
KNOWS A LOT MORE THAN WHAT WE JUST LAID OUT THERE.
JUST LAID OUT THERE. YOU READ THE INDICTMENTS, THE
YOU READ THE INDICTMENTS, THE PARTS THAT AREN'T REDACTED AND
PARTS THAT AREN'T REDACTED AND YOU KNOW HE HAS LOTS MORE, LOTS
YOU KNOW HE HAS LOTS MORE, LOTS MORE PEOPLE WHO ARE COOPERATING,
MORE PEOPLE WHO ARE COOPERATING, LOTS MORE INFORMATION ABOUT
LOTS MORE INFORMATION ABOUT THOSE CONTACTS.
THOSE CONTACTS. WHAT WE DON'T KNOW IS DID
WHAT WE DON'T KNOW IS DID TRUMP -- HOW INVOLVED WAS HE?
TRUMP -- HOW INVOLVED WAS HE? AND THE ONE THING I WILL SAY, I
AND THE ONE THING I WILL SAY, I DON'T KNOW HOW INVOLVED HE WAS,
DON'T KNOW HOW INVOLVED HE WAS, WHAT HE KNEW.
WHAT HE KNEW. I WILL SAY THAT IN THE CAMPAIGN
I WILL SAY THAT IN THE CAMPAIGN THROUGH THIS DAY HE KNOWS
THROUGH THIS DAY HE KNOWS EVERYTHING THAT'S GOING ON.
EVERYTHING THAT'S GOING ON. HE'S ALWAYS HYPER INVOLVED,
HE'S ALWAYS HYPER INVOLVED, ESPECIALLY WITH ALL THOSE
ESPECIALLY WITH ALL THOSE INDIVIDUALS.
INDIVIDUALS. SO THE IDEA THAT ALL OF THESE
SO THE IDEA THAT ALL OF THESE PEOPLE ARE OPERATING ON THEIR
PEOPLE ARE OPERATING ON THEIR OWN UNBEKNOWNST TO HIM IN A
OWN UNBEKNOWNST TO HIM IN A TOTALLY CLEAN WAY, THAT'S THE
TOTALLY CLEAN WAY, THAT'S THE BAR THAT HE'S GOING TO HAVE TO
BAR THAT HE'S GOING TO HAVE TO CLEAR AND I THINK THAT'S WHY YOU
CLEAR AND I THINK THAT'S WHY YOU SEE A LOT OF REPUBLICANS OVER
SEE A LOT OF REPUBLICANS OVER THIS WEEK AND EVEN THE ONES WHO
THIS WEEK AND EVEN THE ONES WHO LOVE HIM MOST SAYING, OH, BOY.
LOVE HIM MOST SAYING, OH, BOY. >> YEAH.
>> YEAH. YOU KNOW, THE PRESIDENT'S
YOU KNOW, THE PRESIDENT'S STRANGE TWEETS OVER THE PAST
STRANGE TWEETS OVER THE PAST SEVERAL DAYS, JOE, SUGGEST A LOT
SEVERAL DAYS, JOE, SUGGEST A LOT OF DIFFERENT THINGS.
OF DIFFERENT THINGS. I THINK HE SAID SOMETHING ABOUT
I THINK HE SAID SOMETHING ABOUT A COUNTER REPORT TO THE MUELLER
A COUNTER REPORT TO THE MUELLER PROBE.
PROBE. HOW CAN YOU MAKE A COUNTER
HOW CAN YOU MAKE A COUNTER REPORT OR EVEN ALLUDE TO ONE
REPORT OR EVEN ALLUDE TO ONE UNLESS YOU KNOW THAT IT'S
UNLESS YOU KNOW THAT IT'S REALLY, REALLY BAD?
REALLY, REALLY BAD? >> HE'S TALKING ABOUT A COUNTER
>> HE'S TALKING ABOUT A COUNTER REPORT.
REPORT. YOU REALLY CAN'T MAKE A COUNTER
YOU REALLY CAN'T MAKE A COUNTER REPORT UNTIL YOU ACTUALLY KNOW
REPORT UNTIL YOU ACTUALLY KNOW WHAT'S IN THE INITIAL REPORT.
WHAT'S IN THE INITIAL REPORT. BUT IT DOES SUGGEST HOW
BUT IT DOES SUGGEST HOW DESPERATE HE IS.
DESPERATE HE IS. THERE IS NOT A COUNTER REPORT.
THERE IS NOT A COUNTER REPORT. RUDY GIULIANI LATE AT NIGHT WHEN
RUDY GIULIANI LATE AT NIGHT WHEN HE'S TALKING TO REPORTERS ADMITS
HE'S TALKING TO REPORTERS ADMITS THERE IS NOT A COUNTER REPORT
THERE IS NOT A COUNTER REPORT OUT THERE.
OUT THERE. >> BUT HE'S INSINUATING IT'S
>> BUT HE'S INSINUATING IT'S TERRIBLE WHAT THEY HAVE, MAYBE
TERRIBLE WHAT THEY HAVE, MAYBE WHAT THEY'VE INDICATED TO HIM,
WHAT THEY'VE INDICATED TO HIM, MAYBE THE QUESTIONS THEY HAVE
MAYBE THE QUESTIONS THEY HAVE SENT ARE SO DAMNING THAT HE
SENT ARE SO DAMNING THAT HE WANTS TO PROVIDE A COUNTER
WANTS TO PROVIDE A COUNTER REPORT.
REPORT. >> WHY ARE WE EVEN READING HIS
>> WHY ARE WE EVEN READING HIS TWEETS?
TWEETS? WHY ARE WE TAKING HIS TWEETS
WHY ARE WE TAKING HIS TWEETS SERIOUSLY?
SERIOUSLY? THEY'RE JOKES, DONNY DEUTSCH.
THEY'RE JOKES, DONNY DEUTSCH. MY GOSH, I WILL TELL YOU WHAT
MY GOSH, I WILL TELL YOU WHAT ELSE IS A JOKE, THE SUGGESTION
ELSE IS A JOKE, THE SUGGESTION THAT DONALD TRUMP'S SON-IN-LAW
THAT DONALD TRUMP'S SON-IN-LAW OR DONALD TRUMP'S OLDEST SON OR
OR DONALD TRUMP'S OLDEST SON OR ANYBODY RELATED TO DONALD TRUMP
ANYBODY RELATED TO DONALD TRUMP OR WORKING WITH DONALD TRUMP
OR WORKING WITH DONALD TRUMP WOULD DO ANYTHING DURING THE
WOULD DO ANYTHING DURING THE 2016 CAMPAIGN WITHOUT GETTING
2016 CAMPAIGN WITHOUT GETTING DONALD TRUMP'S SIGNOFF IS AN
DONALD TRUMP'S SIGNOFF IS AN ABSOLUTE JOKE AND WHOEVER
ABSOLUTE JOKE AND WHOEVER SUGGESTS THAT IS EITHER WHOLLY
SUGGESTS THAT IS EITHER WHOLLY IGNORANT ABOUT HOW THAT CAMPAIGN
IGNORANT ABOUT HOW THAT CAMPAIGN RAN FROM DAY ONE OR THEY'RE JUST
RAN FROM DAY ONE OR THEY'RE JUST LIARS.
LIARS. THERE IS NO THIRD CHOICE THERE.
THERE IS NO THIRD CHOICE THERE. >> JOE, TWO POINTS, ONE TO THE
>> JOE, TWO POINTS, ONE TO THE TWEETS, IT'S INTERESTING, HIS
TWEETS, IT'S INTERESTING, HIS TWEETS SIX MONTHS OR A YEAR AGO
TWEETS SIX MONTHS OR A YEAR AGO THEY WOULD COME OUT AND THE
THEY WOULD COME OUT AND THE RESPONSE WAS ANGER AND THIS IS A
RESPONSE WAS ANGER AND THIS IS A STRONG MAN, YOU'RE FEARFUL AND
STRONG MAN, YOU'RE FEARFUL AND OUTRAGED.
OUTRAGED. NOW IT'S PATHETIC.
NOW IT'S PATHETIC. IT'S BENIGN.
IT'S BENIGN. IT'S ALMOST -- GO SIT IN THE
IT'S ALMOST -- GO SIT IN THE CORNER, GRANDPA.
CORNER, GRANDPA. GO PLAY WITH YOUR LITTLE PHONE
GO PLAY WITH YOUR LITTLE PHONE AND WE WILL GET BACK TO YOU.
AND WE WILL GET BACK TO YOU. TO YOUR POINT, JOE, YOU HAVE
TO YOUR POINT, JOE, YOU HAVE 100% RIGHT, IF ANYBODY HAS EVER
100% RIGHT, IF ANYBODY HAS EVER BEEN UP TO THE TRUMP OFFICE,
BEEN UP TO THE TRUMP OFFICE, IT'S SMALL, THE OFFICES ARE
IT'S SMALL, THE OFFICES ARE RIGHT NEXT TO EACH OTHER.
RIGHT NEXT TO EACH OTHER. I WAS IN A FAMILY BUSINESS, I
I WAS IN A FAMILY BUSINESS, I WORKED WITH MY DAD, I WORKED FOR
WORKED WITH MY DAD, I WORKED FOR MY DAD FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS,
MY DAD FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS, WITH HE WOULD SPEAK 20, 30, 40,
WITH HE WOULD SPEAK 20, 30, 40, 50 TIMES A DAY AND MY DAD WAS
50 TIMES A DAY AND MY DAD WAS NOT AN AUTHORITATIVE TYPE OF
NOT AN AUTHORITATIVE TYPE OF BOSS.
BOSS. HIS CHILDREN WERE NOT JUST
HIS CHILDREN WERE NOT JUST CHILDREN, THEY WERE EMPLOYEES TO
CHILDREN, THEY WERE EMPLOYEES TO HIM.
HIM. THERE'S NOTHING THEY DID WITHOUT
THERE'S NOTHING THEY DID WITHOUT EITHER TRYING TO CURRY FAVOR OR
EITHER TRYING TO CURRY FAVOR OR WITHOUT HIS ABSOLUTE DIRECTION.
WITHOUT HIS ABSOLUTE DIRECTION. THAT WAS NOT A MOM AND POP SHOW,
THAT WAS NOT A MOM AND POP SHOW, THAT WAS A ONE-MAN POP SHOW.
THAT WAS A ONE-MAN POP SHOW. SO TO YOUR POINT, JOE, IT IS
SO TO YOUR POINT, JOE, IT IS ABSURD, IT IS BEYOND THE
ABSURD, IT IS BEYOND THE POSSIBILITY THAT ANY OF THESE
POSSIBILITY THAT ANY OF THESE PEOPLE WHETHER IT WAS MICHAEL
PEOPLE WHETHER IT WAS MICHAEL COHEN, WHETHER IT WAS HIS
COHEN, WHETHER IT WAS HIS CHILDREN, ANY OF THE OTHER
CHILDREN, ANY OF THE OTHER PEOPLE IN THE INNER CIRCLE WERE
PEOPLE IN THE INNER CIRCLE WERE ACTING NOT ONLY WITHOUT HIM
ACTING NOT ONLY WITHOUT HIM KNOWING BUT WITH HIS COMPLETE
KNOWING BUT WITH HIS COMPLETE DIRECTION.
DIRECTION. THAT IS THE WAY THAT MAN WORKED.
THAT IS THE WAY THAT MAN WORKED. THAT IS THE WAY THAT COMPANY WAS
THAT IS THE WAY THAT COMPANY WAS RUN.
RUN. IMAGINE -- IF YOU ARE SITTING AT
IMAGINE -- IF YOU ARE SITTING AT HOME RIGHT NOW, LOOK AT THE ROOM
HOME RIGHT NOW, LOOK AT THE ROOM NEXT TO YOU BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE
NEXT TO YOU BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE HIS CHILDREN WERE AND THAT'S
HIS CHILDREN WERE AND THAT'S WHERE HIS CONFIDANTS WERE.
WHERE HIS CONFIDANTS WERE. >> THEY WERE RIGHT THERE.
>> THEY WERE RIGHT THERE. AGAIN, ANYBODY THAT EVER SAW THE
AGAIN, ANYBODY THAT EVER SAW THE INTERACTION BETWEEN THEM DURING
INTERACTION BETWEEN THEM DURING THE CAMPAIGN, AFTER THE CAMPAIGN
THE CAMPAIGN, AFTER THE CAMPAIGN OR, AS YOU SAID, BEFORE THE
OR, AS YOU SAID, BEFORE THE CAMPAIGN WHEN EVERYBODY WORKED
CAMPAIGN WHEN EVERYBODY WORKED AT TRUMP TOWER, THEY UNDERSTOOD
AT TRUMP TOWER, THEY UNDERSTOOD THOSE CHILDREN DID EXACTLY WHAT
THOSE CHILDREN DID EXACTLY WHAT THEY WERE TOLD BY THEIR FATHER
THEY WERE TOLD BY THEIR FATHER AS IT PERTAINED TO BUSINESS, AS
AS IT PERTAINED TO BUSINESS, AS IT PERTAINED TO POLITICS, AS IT
IT PERTAINED TO POLITICS, AS IT PERTAINED TO ANYTHING.
PERTAINED TO ANYTHING. THE THOUGHT, STEVE RATTNER, THAT
THE THOUGHT, STEVE RATTNER, THAT DON JR. WAS GOING TO GO OFF ON
DON JR. WAS GOING TO GO OFF ON HIS OWN AND TAKE A MEETING WITH
HIS OWN AND TAKE A MEETING WITH RUSSIANS OR THAT JARED KUSHNER
RUSSIANS OR THAT JARED KUSHNER WAS SOMEHOW GOING TO DO
WAS SOMEHOW GOING TO DO SOMETHING WITHOUT DONALD TRUMP
SOMETHING WITHOUT DONALD TRUMP KNOWING, LAUGHABLE, A JOKE.
KNOWING, LAUGHABLE, A JOKE. THEY ALL WERE SORT OF IN FEAR OF
THEY ALL WERE SORT OF IN FEAR OF THE GUY AND I NEVER ONCE SAW
THE GUY AND I NEVER ONCE SAW ANYBODY TALK BACK TO HIM, NEVER
ANYBODY TALK BACK TO HIM, NEVER ONCE SAW ANYBODY DO ANYTHING BUT
ONCE SAW ANYBODY DO ANYTHING BUT SAY YES, SIR, NEVER ONCE SAW
SAY YES, SIR, NEVER ONCE SAW ANYBODY DO ANYTHING EXCEPT WHAT
ANYBODY DO ANYTHING EXCEPT WHAT DONALD TRUMP TOLD THEM EXACTLY,
DONALD TRUMP TOLD THEM EXACTLY, YOU KNOW -- HE WOULD TELL THEM
YOU KNOW -- HE WOULD TELL THEM EXACTLY WHAT TO DO AND THIS HE
EXACTLY WHAT TO DO AND THIS HE WOULD DO IT.
WOULD DO IT. THERE WAS NO SNEAKING ANYTHING
THERE WAS NO SNEAKING ANYTHING PAST HIM.
PAST HIM. >> NO I THINK WHAT DONNY SAID
>> NO I THINK WHAT DONNY SAID ABOUT THE WAY THE TRUMP
ABOUT THE WAY THE TRUMP ORGANIZATION RAN IS EXACTLY
ORGANIZATION RAN IS EXACTLY RIGHT.
RIGHT. DONALD TRUMP WE KNOW IS A
DONALD TRUMP WE KNOW IS A MICROMANAGER, HE NEEDS TO KNOW
MICROMANAGER, HE NEEDS TO KNOW EVERYTHING THAT'S GOING ON,
EVERYTHING THAT'S GOING ON, WANTS TO KNOW EVERYTHING THAT'S
WANTS TO KNOW EVERYTHING THAT'S GOING ON, AND WE EVEN HAVE, AT
GOING ON, AND WE EVEN HAVE, AT LEAST AT THE MOMENT,
LEAST AT THE MOMENT, CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE OF THIS,
CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE OF THIS, FOR EXAMPLE, THERE WERE THE
FOR EXAMPLE, THERE WERE THE CALLS FROM DONALD TRUMP JR.'S
CALLS FROM DONALD TRUMP JR.'S CELLPHONE TO A BLOCKED NUMBER
CELLPHONE TO A BLOCKED NUMBER BEFORE AND AFTER THE JULY 16th
BEFORE AND AFTER THE JULY 16th MEETING.
MEETING. MAYBE WE WILL FIND OUT, MAYBE
MAYBE WE WILL FIND OUT, MAYBE MUELLER CAN FIND OUT EXACTLY WHO
MUELLER CAN FIND OUT EXACTLY WHO THOSE CALLS WERE TO, BUT I THINK
THOSE CALLS WERE TO, BUT I THINK WE ALL HAVE OUR SUSPICIONS.
WE ALL HAVE OUR SUSPICIONS. IT WAS THE NOT SO ELLIPTICAL
IT WAS THE NOT SO ELLIPTICAL FAIRLY CLEAR REMARKS THAT TRUMP
FAIRLY CLEAR REMARKS THAT TRUMP MADE ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL AFTER
MADE ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL AFTER THAT MEETING BEFORE THE
THAT MEETING BEFORE THE WIKILEAKS LEAK OCCURRED THAT
WIKILEAKS LEAK OCCURRED THAT SUGGESTED HE KNEW SOMETHING.
SUGGESTED HE KNEW SOMETHING. THERE'S EVIDENCE ALL OVER THE
THERE'S EVIDENCE ALL OVER THE PLACE THAT YOU GETTED HE KNEW
PLACE THAT YOU GETTED HE KNEW THIS.
THIS. THE QUESTION IS WHAT'S GOING TO
THE QUESTION IS WHAT'S GOING TO COME OF IT?
COME OF IT? IS IT GOING TO BE ENOUGH FOR
IS IT GOING TO BE ENOUGH FOR MUELLER TO PUT TOGETHER INTO A
MUELLER TO PUT TOGETHER INTO A PACKAGE THAT WILL START TO TURN
PACKAGE THAT WILL START TO TURN THE TIDE AMONG REPUBLICANS WHO
THE TIDE AMONG REPUBLICANS WHO SO FAR HAVE BEEN QUITE STEADFAST
SO FAR HAVE BEEN QUITE STEADFAST IN AT LEAST THEIR PROFESSED
IN AT LEAST THEIR PROFESSED OPEN-MINDEDNESS ON THIS ISSUE,
OPEN-MINDEDNESS ON THIS ISSUE, BUT CERTAINLY NOT TURNED AGAINST
BUT CERTAINLY NOT TURNED AGAINST TRUMP.
TRUMP. >> STEVE, LET'S TALK ABOUT --
>> STEVE, LET'S TALK ABOUT -- LET'S MOVE FROM RUSSIA AND THE
LET'S MOVE FROM RUSSIA AND THE MUELLER PROBE TO WHAT'S
MUELLER PROBE TO WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THE SOUTHERN
HAPPENING IN THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK.
DISTRICT OF NEW YORK. THAT PROSECUTION THAT'S ONGOING,
THAT PROSECUTION THAT'S ONGOING, AS WELL AS THE INVESTIGATION
AS WELL AS THE INVESTIGATION THAT IS ONGOING AS WELL.
THAT IS ONGOING AS WELL. WE TALKED BEFORE ABOUT ANDY
WE TALKED BEFORE ABOUT ANDY McCARTHY, SUGGESTING ON FOX NEWS
McCARTHY, SUGGESTING ON FOX NEWS THAT DONALD TRUMP IS GOING TO
THAT DONALD TRUMP IS GOING TO GET INDICTED.
GET INDICTED. YOU SEE HIS VERY CLEAR
YOU SEE HIS VERY CLEAR STATEMENT, WHICH IS ALSO THE LAW
STATEMENT, WHICH IS ALSO THE LAW OF THE LAND, THE FEDERAL LAW,
OF THE LAND, THE FEDERAL LAW, WHICH IS IF YOU DIRECT SOMEBODY
WHICH IS IF YOU DIRECT SOMEBODY TO MAKE AN ILLEGAL CAMPAIGN
TO MAKE AN ILLEGAL CAMPAIGN CONTRIBUTION, THAT IS A FELONY,
CONTRIBUTION, THAT IS A FELONY, EVEN IN THE STATE OF KENTUCKY,
EVEN IN THE STATE OF KENTUCKY, RAND PAUL, THAT IS A FEDERAL
RAND PAUL, THAT IS A FEDERAL FELONY.
FELONY. THEN YOU TAKE IT THE NEXT STEP
THEN YOU TAKE IT THE NEXT STEP AND SEE HOW MUCH -- I WILL READ
AND SEE HOW MUCH -- I WILL READ WHAT ANDY McCARTHY SAID, AS
WHAT ANDY McCARTHY SAID, AS WE'VE JUST SEEN IT IS A FELONY
WE'VE JUST SEEN IT IS A FELONY TO CAUSE ANOTHER PERSON TO MAKE
TO CAUSE ANOTHER PERSON TO MAKE AN ILLEGAL CONTRIBUTION.
AN ILLEGAL CONTRIBUTION. A FEDERAL FELONY.
A FEDERAL FELONY. AND THEN, OF COURSE, YOU LOOK AT
AND THEN, OF COURSE, YOU LOOK AT THE PAINSTAKING WAY DONALD TRUMP
THE PAINSTAKING WAY DONALD TRUMP WENT -- HOW FAR OUT OF HIS WAY
WENT -- HOW FAR OUT OF HIS WAY DONALD TRUMP WENT TO HIDE THOSE
DONALD TRUMP WENT TO HIDE THOSE ILLEGAL CAMPAIGN CONTRIBUTIONS
ILLEGAL CAMPAIGN CONTRIBUTIONS AND TO DIRECT THEM.
AND TO DIRECT THEM. IT SHOWS HIS INTENT.
IT SHOWS HIS INTENT. AND THEN I WANT TO GET TO THE
AND THEN I WANT TO GET TO THE THIRD POINT HERE WHICH IS IT
THIRD POINT HERE WHICH IS IT WASN'T JUST A CLERICAL ERROR.
WASN'T JUST A CLERICAL ERROR. THIS ACTUALLY WAS AN
THIS ACTUALLY WAS AN EXTRAORDINARILY IMPORTANT
EXTRAORDINARILY IMPORTANT ILLEGAL ACT WHICH ACTUALLY MAY
ILLEGAL ACT WHICH ACTUALLY MAY HAVE SWAYED THE ELECTION, MOST
HAVE SWAYED THE ELECTION, MOST LIKELY SWAYED THE ELECTION
LIKELY SWAYED THE ELECTION BECAUSE YOU WERE FOLLOWING THE
BECAUSE YOU WERE FOLLOWING THE CAMPAIGN CLOSELY, OBVIOUSLY WITH
CAMPAIGN CLOSELY, OBVIOUSLY WITH THE CLINTON CAMPAIGN.
THE CLINTON CAMPAIGN. WHAT WOULD THE IMPACT HAVE BEEN
WHAT WOULD THE IMPACT HAVE BEEN IF A PORN STAR AND A PLAYBOY
IF A PORN STAR AND A PLAYBOY BUNNY HAD COME OUT THAT LAST
BUNNY HAD COME OUT THAT LAST WEEK AND TALKED ABOUT THEIR
WEEK AND TALKED ABOUT THEIR AFFAIRS WITH DONALD TRUMP IN
AFFAIRS WITH DONALD TRUMP IN 2006 RIGHT AFTER HE WAS MARRIED
2006 RIGHT AFTER HE WAS MARRIED AND WHEN HIS WIFE WAS PREGNANT?
AND WHEN HIS WIFE WAS PREGNANT? >> WELL, I THINK WE ALL KNOW
>> WELL, I THINK WE ALL KNOW WHAT THE IMPACT OF WHAT WOULD
WHAT THE IMPACT OF WHAT WOULD HAVE BEEN ON THE ELECTION, WHICH
HAVE BEEN ON THE ELECTION, WHICH WAS ULTIMATELY DECIDED BY A
WAS ULTIMATELY DECIDED BY A RELATIVELY SMALL NUMBER, 74,000
RELATIVELY SMALL NUMBER, 74,000 VOTES OR WHATEVER IN A FEW UPPER
VOTES OR WHATEVER IN A FEW UPPER MIDWEST STATES, CERTAINLY
MIDWEST STATES, CERTAINLY SOMETHING LIKE THIS COULD HAVE
SOMETHING LIKE THIS COULD HAVE EASILY MADE THE DIFFERENCE.
EASILY MADE THE DIFFERENCE. LOOK, I THINK WHAT'S GOING TO BE
LOOK, I THINK WHAT'S GOING TO BE INTERESTING TO SEE IS WHAT OTHER
INTERESTING TO SEE IS WHAT OTHER EVIDENCE THE SDNY HAS ON THIS.
EVIDENCE THE SDNY HAS ON THIS. THEIR LANGUAGE IN THE FILINGS ON
THEIR LANGUAGE IN THE FILINGS ON FRIDAY WAS INCREDIBLY STARK AND
FRIDAY WAS INCREDIBLY STARK AND DEFINITIVE AND CLEAR THAT
DEFINITIVE AND CLEAR THAT SUGGESTED THAT THEY HAVE MORE
SUGGESTED THAT THEY HAVE MORE THAN SIMPLY MICHAEL COHEN SAID
THAN SIMPLY MICHAEL COHEN SAID THIS HAPPENED SO TRUMP CAN SAY
THIS HAPPENED SO TRUMP CAN SAY THAT HAPPENED AND WE GET INTO A
THAT HAPPENED AND WE GET INTO A HE SAID, HE SAID KIND OF
HE SAID, HE SAID KIND OF SITUATION.
SITUATION. WHAT'S GOING TO BE NEEDED HERE
WHAT'S GOING TO BE NEEDED HERE GIVEN TRUMP'S BASE AND THE PUSH
GIVEN TRUMP'S BASE AND THE PUSH BACK FROM TRUMP'S MEGAPHONE IS
BACK FROM TRUMP'S MEGAPHONE IS GOING TO BE CLEAR AND
GOING TO BE CLEAR AND UNEQUIVOCAL PROOF.
UNEQUIVOCAL PROOF. THEN THE NEXT QUESTION WHICH I
THEN THE NEXT QUESTION WHICH I HEARD YOU DISCUSSING EARLIER IS
HEARD YOU DISCUSSING EARLIER IS SHOULD TRUMP GET INDICTED OR
SHOULD TRUMP GET INDICTED OR NOT?
NOT? WE ALL KNOW THE ISSUES AROUND
WE ALL KNOW THE ISSUES AROUND THAT, THERE'S STATUTES OF
THAT, THERE'S STATUTES OF LIMITATIONS ISSUES.
LIMITATIONS ISSUES. THERE SEEMS TO BE, I THINK, AN
THERE SEEMS TO BE, I THINK, AN OPENING TO INDICT A SITTING
OPENING TO INDICT A SITTING PRESIDENT THAT DOES NOT SEEM TO
PRESIDENT THAT DOES NOT SEEM TO BE AGAINST THE LAW, WHETHER YOU
BE AGAINST THE LAW, WHETHER YOU PROSECUTE HIM OR NOT IS ANOTHER
PROSECUTE HIM OR NOT IS ANOTHER QUESTION.
QUESTION. THEN YOU GET TO THE MEGA
THEN YOU GET TO THE MEGA QUESTION OF DOES THIS RISE TO
QUESTION OF DOES THIS RISE TO THE LEVEL OF BEING AN
THE LEVEL OF BEING AN IMPEACHABLE OFFENSE AND A LOT OF
IMPEACHABLE OFFENSE AND A LOT OF PEOPLE WOULD OBVIOUSLY FEEL IT
PEOPLE WOULD OBVIOUSLY FEEL IT DOES, THERE ARE OTHERS WHO FEEL
DOES, THERE ARE OTHERS WHO FEEL THAT WE SHOULD HAVE AN
THAT WE SHOULD HAVE AN INCREDIBLY HIGH STANDARD FOR
INCREDIBLY HIGH STANDARD FOR IMPEACHMENT, THAT WE SHOULD NOT
IMPEACHMENT, THAT WE SHOULD NOT BE GETTING RID OF PRESIDENTS
BE GETTING RID OF PRESIDENTS LIGHTLY, EVEN ONES WHO HAVE
LIGHTLY, EVEN ONES WHO HAVE BROKEN THE LAW AND THAT THOSE
BROKEN THE LAW AND THAT THOSE CAN BE TWO SOMEWHAT SEPARATE
CAN BE TWO SOMEWHAT SEPARATE ISSUES.
ISSUES. >> YOU KNOW, THE IMPORTANT THING
>> YOU KNOW, THE IMPORTANT THING TO REMEMBER, MIKA, AS WE'RE
TO REMEMBER, MIKA, AS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WHETHER YOU CAN
TALKING ABOUT WHETHER YOU CAN INDICT A PRESIDENT OR NOT IS
INDICT A PRESIDENT OR NOT IS WHAT JOYCE VANCE JUST SAID.
WHAT JOYCE VANCE JUST SAID. IF THE INDICTMENT PERTAINS TO
IF THE INDICTMENT PERTAINS TO ILLEGAL ACTIVITIES THAT GOT YOU
ILLEGAL ACTIVITIES THAT GOT YOU ELECTED PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED
ELECTED PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OR MAY HAVE NOT YOU
STATES OR MAY HAVE NOT YOU ELECTED PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED
ELECTED PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, THEN THE SUPREME COURT
STATES, THEN THE SUPREME COURT HAS TO LOOK AT THAT DIFFERENTLY
HAS TO LOOK AT THAT DIFFERENTLY BECAUSE IF YOU ARE WILLING TO
BECAUSE IF YOU ARE WILLING TO SAY THAT A PRESIDENT CANNOT BE
SAY THAT A PRESIDENT CANNOT BE INDICTED AND THAT PRESIDENT IS
INDICTED AND THAT PRESIDENT IS PRESIDENT ONLY BECAUSE OF
PRESIDENT ONLY BECAUSE OF ILLEGAL ACTIVITIES --
ILLEGAL ACTIVITIES -- >> RIGHT.
>> RIGHT. >> -- THEN SUDDENLY YOU REALLY
>> -- THEN SUDDENLY YOU REALLY DO, RAND PAUL -- THIS IS WHERE
DO, RAND PAUL -- THIS IS WHERE THE BANANA REPUBLIC PART COMES
THE BANANA REPUBLIC PART COMES IN.
IN. THEN IT BECOMES IS BANANA
THEN IT BECOMES IS BANANA REPUBLIC WHERE SOMEBODY
REPUBLIC WHERE SOMEBODY COMMITTING ILLEGAL ACTS SAY I
COMMITTING ILLEGAL ACTS SAY I CAN DO WHATEVER I WANT TO DO, I
CAN DO WHATEVER I WANT TO DO, I CAN COMMIT WHATEVER FELONIES I
CAN COMMIT WHATEVER FELONIES I WANT TO COMMIT AS LONG AS I GET
WANT TO COMMIT AS LONG AS I GET ELECTED PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED
ELECTED PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES THEY CANNOT INDICT ME.
STATES THEY CANNOT INDICT ME. THAT IS NOT AN AMERICAN
THAT IS NOT AN AMERICAN PRINCIPLE.
PRINCIPLE. MIKA, THE AMERICAN PRINCIPLE IS,
MIKA, THE AMERICAN PRINCIPLE IS, NO MAN IS ABOVE THE LAW.
NO MAN IS ABOVE THE LAW. NO WOMAN IS ABOVE THE LAW.
NO WOMAN IS ABOVE THE LAW. THAT'S WHY I BELIEVE THIS
THAT'S WHY I BELIEVE THIS SUPREME COURT IF FACED WITH THIS
SUPREME COURT IF FACED WITH THIS QUESTION, I THINK THEY ARE GOING
QUESTION, I THINK THEY ARE GOING TO BE FACED WITH THIS QUESTION,
TO BE FACED WITH THIS QUESTION, ULTIMATELY WILL HAVE TO DECIDE
ULTIMATELY WILL HAVE TO DECIDE WHAT THIS PRESIDENT HAS TO BE
WHAT THIS PRESIDENT HAS TO BE INDICTED BECAUSE OF THE
INDICTED BECAUSE OF THE CONNECTION WITH THE CRIMES WHICH
CONNECTION WITH THE CRIMES WHICH ACTUALLY HELPED HIM GET ELECTED.
ACTUALLY HELPED HIM GET ELECTED. >> AND OR MUELLER COULD BE
>> AND OR MUELLER COULD BE PROVIDING CONGRESS WITH A CLEAR
PROVIDING CONGRESS WITH A CLEAR ROADMAP TOWARD IMPEACHMENT.
ROADMAP TOWARD IMPEACHMENT. JIM VANDEHEI, THANK YOU VERY
JIM VANDEHEI, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
MUCH. >>> STILL AHEAD, IT'S BEEN
>>> STILL AHEAD, IT'S BEEN ALMOST TWO YEARS SINCE PRESIDENT
ALMOST TWO YEARS SINCE PRESIDENT TRUMP WAS SWORN INTO OFFICE AND
TRUMP WAS SWORN INTO OFFICE AND SO FAR HE'S COMING UP SHORT ON
SO FAR HE'S COMING UP SHORT ON TWO OF HIS BIGGEST ECONOMIC
TWO OF HIS BIGGEST ECONOMIC GOALS.
GOALS. STEVE RATTNER HAS SOME CHARTS ON
STEVE RATTNER HAS SOME CHARTS ON THAT COMING UP ON "MORNING JOE."
THAT COMING UP ON "MORNING JOE." >> WE SHOULD NOT HAVE SPECIAL
>> WE SHOULD NOT HAVE SPECIAL PROSECUTORS GOING AFTER ONE
PROSECUTORS GOING AFTER ONE PERSON AND IF WE GET THIS WAY,
PERSON AND IF WE GET THIS WAY, AND IF WE ARE GOING TO PROSECUTE
AND IF WE ARE GOING TO PROSECUTE PEOPLE AND PUT THEM IN JAIL FOR

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